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Backstory/Continuity

TheImpalerTMXPosted on 01/20/10 at 04:16:52

I realized about a week ago when making a response that though I still maintain my TNM databases, it has been a long time since I've even run a card. And running no cards means it has been a long time since I've started a circuit up (you may remember my PWA circuit from a year ago that lasted about 3-4 cards).

I find the biggest problem is that I always feel the need to make my circuit fit in with the real world. Sure, I can create a backstory that enables me to feel like my circuit is realistic and once it gets rolling I am fine with it becoming an "alternate universe" based on what happens in my circuit. But the problem is I don't want to take away from the accolades that a given wrestler is picking up in real life. Say I use someone like Chris Jericho - I want all his accomplishments in WCW, WWE, etc. to be a selling point, but taking him out of the current continuity of things means his history stops there. Not much of a problem for a guy like him, but what if I was to use Kofi Kingston? Let's just say he wins the WWE title and has a run for a few months soon after I start my circuit. That's would be something important for his career.

I guess always feel the need to justify why I am running a circuit with so many big names and making my circuit feel realistic. I know a lot of people don't have that same need who use TNM - which is fine, it is there for you to do what you like. That just never works for me for a long-term project.

I don't know, I guess I'm throwing this out here to see if I can get a discussion going with people who find themselves having similar problems. I do have a fair share of ideas to make a fun little circuit, but this is the roadblock I must get through. I know the most obvious solution is use fictional wrestlers, but if I go that route the fun for it in me is building guys up meaning I'd at least have to start with actual wrestlers and intergrate a few fictional wrestlers over time. In fact, most of my ideas involve something along those lines, but it can't be done if I can't get anything started.

I know this is kind of all over the place, but like I said I more wanted to see who else has issues like this and other people's views on things.
The TNM Members ChampPosted on 01/20/10 at 04:48:22

There's nothing wrong with that. I do think you need to draw a line at some point because no matter what we do, there will always be something unrealistic. And maybe that's realistic because WWE and TNA tend to have their share of suspending belief.

A big thing I like to do is have matches/angles/interviews that fit within whatever my alloted television time slot would be. If I have a hour show, I try to make the time go no longer than 45 minutes (includes interviews where I guesstimate)
PlutarPosted on 01/20/10 at 16:31:58

In the circuit I've been running forever I run a monthly schedule. So I like to think that once a month this given wrestler will do everything he's doing in real life and still have time for my 1 card a month. Of course this isn't real time, I can do a year in a couple weeks. I also use a coolness scale to determine what title any given wrestler will be eligible for at any point in there life and if somebody like Kofi Kingston suddenly becomes a lot more cool to me by getting a bigger push and/or improving I update his coolness. For instance, I've been watching this best of 2009 torrent pack and watched a match with Kenta and Taiji Ishimori in it. I didn't have them ranked high because I'd never really liked them but I had to update their coolness after seeing how good they were. I also had to update Sheamus's coolness just a little bit when he won the title.
TheImpalerTMXPosted on 01/20/10 at 20:12:26

I've done the "spot show" type thing where wrestlers would still work for their parent company like that. It doesn't allow for a lot of feuds to develop or any storylines to happen when a month goes by. It really only allows for things like Wrestler A pinned Wrestler B in a tag match on the previous card so they wrestle each other. I'm not looking to do anything extravagant, but I'd like to do a little more than that.

I guess it would help if I talked about the ideas I had. Right now ECW is my favorite hour of WWE programming so I'm inspired to do a circuit based on how things work. A one-hour weekly show with no PPV's so things have to play out week by week. This also means I'm working with a small roster to begin with - 12-16 guys tops. Keeping things somewhat tied to reality is important because I also want to bring in other guys on short-term, spot deals (you know, like what happened in WCW when New Japan guys would show up). As I've said as soon as I run my first card things turn into my alternate universe - certainly makes bringing some bigger names in possible.

Another idea I've had is to run the circuit based on stables. Basically I'd have three stables (one face, one heel, one neutral) wth four or five guys. I'd ideally like it to be something along the lines of three guys who are friends behind the scenes put together the promotion and each is the captain of a stable. Based on my personal favorites and who tends to be lumped together I've been thinking Christian (face), Jericho (heel), and Edge (neutral). I figure with this I could run it under the WWE banner as the show that replaces ECW, but then I figure relatistically they'd have to work the other shows as well where this stuff wouldn't spill over. I could do it as a break-away group, though.

The stable wars is basically how everything would start. Over time I'd add in my fictional wrestlers and book them much like rookies in Japan. You know, start them with a basic moveset mainly doing jobs to my bigger stars and develop them over time with a more versatile moveset and have them move into a new gimmick/character role. I'd only have them coming in at like 2 or 3 at a time and eventually could move away from the stable concept.

I guess laying it all out like this has actually made me kind of solve my own problem. I'd appreciate some feedback though on what people think of this idea. And I'm still leaving this thread open for other people to discuss the issues they have with running their TNM circuit with some degree of overlap in reality.
PlutarPosted on 01/20/10 at 21:17:03

I like the idea with the stable wars and the rookie idea sounds awesome but I've never been able to understand the idea of neutrals. Are they heels that get cheered or vice versa?
LillaThrillaPosted on 01/20/10 at 22:22:48

I usually use whenever my circuit starts as a departure point.  Anything that happened before that point in real life happened as far as my circuit is concerned.  Anything that happened after that...well, I can acknowledge if it's useful and not contradictory.

If I'm just throwing together wrestlers I like into a single circuit (which I rarely ever do), I wouldn't bother trying to explain it.
TheImpalerTMXPosted on 01/20/10 at 22:52:35

On 01/20/10 at 21:17:03, Plutar wrote:I like the idea with the stable wars and the rookie idea sounds awesome but I've never been able to understand the idea of neutrals. Are they heels that get cheered or vice versa?
I think they can be either. If there was no option to disable the booing of heels, a lot of Japanese heels would be neutral. Masahiro Chono when he went "black" would be a good example of this. He is liked by the fans, but any instance of him cheating is probably going to get "booed" (Japanese fans don't really boo, they just yell louder). I think it best used for someone who regularly fights both faces and heels (e.g. 96-97 Steve Austin). I'm not sure if the crowd will treat a neutral wrestler the opposite of their opponent.

In the case of my proposed circuit the neutral team would be the "cool" heels or the outlaw type. Basically they have a strong fanbase, but will do things that are less than honorable from time to time. It really is to establish their disposition as a whole. The neutral faction is the one that has "the ends justify the means" philosophy.
Snabbit888Posted on 01/20/10 at 23:21:54

Other possibilities you could do that have their pros and cons:

Don't use anyone hired by WWE or TNA.  Harms does something similar with NAWA (though his is just no WWE).  There's no worry of missing anyone's accomplishments if they can't "legally" be contracted by you while they work for the Big 2.  Biggest issue is it limits who you can use and might not be too excited about the characters you can use.

You could also start in an earlier time period.  Make your circuit start in, hypothetically, 1993.  That way, you can more easily work what you're doing around real life happenings since that history is already quite clearly documented.  Problem is finding the time period you want to use, and getting the exports/wrestlers you want for a certain time period is tedious (I know as I've put a ton of work into my GCW OS exports and rosters and still am fixing things on the fly).
PulsarPosted on 01/21/10 at 04:08:39

When I run a circuit I'm going to do storylines and such in, I try to always go with the "don't use TNA/WWE wrestler" critieria. Basically, like i started my own fed right now, who would be available?
TheImpalerTMXPosted on 01/21/10 at 07:52:45

On 01/21/10 at 04:08:39, Pulsar wrote:When I run a circuit I'm going to do storylines and such in, I try to always go with the "don't use TNA/WWE wrestler" critieria. Basically, like i started my own fed right now, who would be available?
Drawing from the top 3 indepedent promotions - ROH, PWG, and Dragon Gate USA. Plus any smaller feds that are connected to those (Chikara, FIP, CZW, etc.) If you were to start a roster with who is available today you could get lucky and have guys who were recently released from WWE. If you wanted to honor their no compete thing, then you'd just wait until you hit the end of that point and start using them then. So instead of showing up in TNA, they show up in your promotion instead.

Keep in mind that you could realistically do something where talent is loaned out to you. TNA did this for a long time, no idea if they still do. WWE has also done this with inactive wrestlers who work for them - Lawler does this as did Al Snow when he was still employed. So this would be an option if you were doing a promotion that had spot shows rather than weekly TV.
VertigoPosted on 01/21/10 at 20:33:01

For the 3 stable idea:

Make your first card a 3 hour RAW (booked) featuring the draft. Have ECW win at least 2 of the matches to gain Edge and Chris Jericho from Smackdown. You could also use the supplemental draft to pick off a few guys from the other brands that you like or even make trades.
TheImpalerTMXPosted on 01/21/10 at 23:31:56

On 01/21/10 at 20:33:01, Vertigo wrote:For the 3 stable idea:

Make your first card a 3 hour RAW (booked) featuring the draft. Have ECW win at least 2 of the matches to gain Edge and Chris Jericho from Smackdown. You could also use the supplemental draft to pick off a few guys from the other brands that you like or even make trades.
That's a little convoluted for my tastes, but I could roll with it. It does give me the idea to maybe do something with Wrestlemania.

Perhaps I start with the MitB Ladder Match where Chris Jericho is about to win MitB and Edge returns causing Christian to win. Christian feels sleighted at being ECW Champion for so long and it not being considered as pretegious as the two other shows' top belts. So he wants to rechristen ECW with a new brand name instead of getting a World Title shot. This upsets Edge who explains that he was hoping Christian would cash in, win the belt, and then the two could have the "match they always dreamed of." Christian retorts saying it isn't just about him, but all the other guys on ECW who were getting screwed. He also says Edge is always only worried about himself, which makes Edge mad seeing as he won the match for Christian. Jericho breaks in feeling sleighted by both and so all three claim a right to having the MitB contract.

The three fight it out over the next couple months until the draft approaches. Vince comes in to solve things saying none of them will get it (Christian's idea of claiming ECW as his own pisses off Vince). The three then collectively confront Vince each airing their grievances with the boss: For Christian the fact that Vince killed his idea, for Edge the fact that he watched other guys get moved right into the main event while he fought for it, and for Jericho who took the abuse of the guest hosts and allowing his "firing" back when he took a break).

All this leads to Vince having his mentions get the best of him and trying to fire them all. However he can't convince the rest of the Board to let them all go. So he decides to mae a compromise. Christian gets the new brand he wanted, but Vince bans anyone from the new brand from appearing on any other shows or PPV's. Vince allows anyone who also wants to leave to jump, but tells them they will no longer be paid by WWE and WWE will take a portion of the new brand's revenue. All the current ECW wrestlers who want to remain on the WWE get drafted back into Raw or Smackdown. A couple of guys come to side with their respective allies and the promotion begins... but with a new boss. The three will have a series of matches against each other to determine who get the top belt.

So this leaves this situation like this: the new brand is started as its own entity, but it is really still owned by WWE. A one hour show is run with the three groups jockeying for position as rookies eventually show up (they will serve more as "enhancement talent" at the beginning). Eventually I'll add a tag team or 6-man title to play on the stable idea. I'll probably come up with some sort of system that determines how people get a shot (much like Chikara does with its tag belts). I'm thinking of making the boss Ricky Steamboat - which Jericho opposes in storyline, but is overruled 2-to1 anyway. This gives me a veteran who can be there to guide the young guys and occassionally have matches with the rookies on TV. He proved last year that he can still go and they would be short exhibition matches so it would be within his capabilities.

So any thoughts? I know it is a a long backstory, but this is the type of thing I need to get me over that hump of reality vs. fantasy. Thanks to everyone who has helped me so far.
ZedjaPosted on 01/22/10 at 07:23:48

The way I see it, seeing how my circuit will be set in the future and the wrestlers will be plucked out of history at the time I see fit, there will be history, but the future will be set within my own circuit, so some things has never happened.

But the fun part will be that if I see fit I can always include a storyline about those things anyway, because of the different times the wrestlers have been taken. So one wrestler might remember having a match, but the other doesn't ;)