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5-star matches with lowest workrates

TheImpalerTMXPosted on 06/19/09 at 13:18:02

I ask this question because I am thinking of starting up a circuit that will mainly use fictional wrestlers - something my Pro Wrestling APEX circuit I did at the beginning of the year was eventually heading towards. There I was going to start integrating new talent that would slowly move more real-life wrestlers out. There are definitely some things I saw that I could have done better in those first cards so I would rather start fresh than pick that back up. With that decision I'd also like to start by having most of the roster being full of fictional wrestlers from the get-go and any real wrestlers being considered outsiders - basically running things in a Japanese style. I figure I'd give the context of what I'm doing before I get to the matter at hand.

I want to make things operate in such a way that **** matches are rare and ***** are almost unheard of. I'm basically trying to adjust this to make my ratings stand more on a more realistic, global level. Consider the fact that there have been 65 5-star rated matches as rated by the Wrestling Observer, which averages to 2-3 such matches annually (and let's not forget that covers all wrestling, not just one promotion). I'm not trying to suggest that those rankings are the be-all-and-end-all, but my point is I don't want to be popping half a dozen 5-star matches per year in my circuit. So I pose two questions to anyone who wishes to answer from their own TNM experience(s):

1.) What is the lowest workrate one wrestler has had in a ***** match? In other words, who basically got "carried" to a ***** match. For example: Wrestler X (workrate=100) had a ***** match with Wrestler Y (workrate=70).

2.) What is the lowest average of workrate between BOTH wrestlers? In my example above the average is of course 85. Ideally I want to see how a series of matches with two guys both rated at 85 would compare to the two wrestlers in the example.

I think it is going to take some experimenting on my part, but anyone who has some input to offer would help me narrow down the range of values I'd have to test. I want an "average" match to be somewhere between 2-stars and 3-stars; 3-4 would be considered  good and 4+ would be a MOTYC. I think creating a system like this will result in a much more dynamic experience for my circuit. If a match was to ever hit the 5-star mark it would be considered a defining match for the promotion - you know, the stuff legends are made from.
PlutarPosted on 06/19/09 at 17:25:29

I though I had an example of what you were talking about with a recent Bubba Ray Dudley match but it looks like the export I found was grossly inaccurate when it comes to Bubba's workrate... 90? COME ON! Maybe a 70. Remember that Push has a lot to do with ratings as well. So if you make everybody have push of 10 you should get the 2 star average you're wanting.
TheImpalerTMXPosted on 06/19/09 at 21:15:37

Really? Geez, over a decade of using TNM and I'm just learning that. Well, that in itself adds a whole dynamic for me to use in guys getting better over time. Am I right in assuming that TNM will always use the push in calculating ratings regardless of strict pushes being turned on or off? (I would assume that just matters in determing who wins).

I'm still interested to see people's results with guys who suprisingly are involved in high-rated matches. Like I said, I want to get these guys operating on a more global scale, meaning I want them to put on matches at the level of say a PWG or Michinoku Pro. I'd like my top guys to be capable of pulling off ****+ matches, but only against each other or the real-life wrestlers I'll be using. At some point I'll probably create another thread explaining what exactly I'm going to do with the circuit, but no use in doing that until I've created my wrestlers.
Snabbit888Posted on 06/19/09 at 23:14:23

In my GCW Old School promotion, Lou Thesz has been involved in all 6 ***** matches I have had.  His stats are 100-100-100-85.

1) Buddy Rogers - He is no longer in my database because I delete wrestlers when they retire/pass away, but I believe his workrate was 95 or 100.

2) Bruno Sammartino - 80-100-100-80

3) Bruno again.

4) A tag match w/ Thesz & Bruno against Johnny Valentine (80-80-85-80) & Bill Watts (80-85-75-80)

5) The Sheik in a cage match - (60-85-30-90)

6) Bobo Brazil - (65-90-65-95)

So other than the Buddy Rogers match, and maybe marginally Brunos matches, Thesz has carried everyone.   I had most of these ***** matches early in the promotion and I was worried that I was going to have way too many until I realized Thesz was the common theme.  I just attribute that to one of those wrestlers who just wrestles great matches a lot, alal Mitsuhara Misawa or Kenta Kobashi IRL.
Drunken FoolPosted on 06/21/09 at 00:00:43

On 06/19/09 at 23:14:23, Snabbit888 wrote:In my GCW Old School promotion, Lou Thesz has been involved in all 6 ***** matches I have had. His stats are 100-100-100-85.

1) Buddy Rogers - He is no longer in my database because I delete wrestlers when they retire/pass away, but I believe his workrate was 95 or 100.

2) Bruno Sammartino - 80-100-100-80

3) Bruno again.

4) A tag match w/ Thesz & Bruno against Johnny Valentine (80-80-85-80) & Bill Watts (80-85-75-80)

5) The Sheik in a cage match - (60-85-30-90)

6) Bobo Brazil - (65-90-65-95)

So other than the Buddy Rogers match, and maybe marginally Brunos matches, Thesz has carried everyone. I had most of these ***** matches early in the promotion and I was worried that I was going to have way too many until I realized Thesz was the common theme. I just attribute that to one of those wrestlers who just wrestles great matches a lot, alal Mitsuhara Misawa or Kenta Kobashi IRL.
You delete wrestlers if they are dead, yet Thesz,  The Shiek, Johnny Valentine, and Bobo  are also dead?
Snabbit888Posted on 06/21/09 at 00:17:03

On 06/21/09 at 00:00:43, Drunken Fool wrote:

You delete wrestlers if they are dead, yet Thesz, The Shiek, Johnny Valentine, and Bobo are also dead?
Not in 1969 they aren't, which is where my circuit currently is.
PlutarPosted on 06/21/09 at 04:14:37

Dude, I'm wrapping up 1995 in my historic circuit :)
Snabbit888Posted on 06/21/09 at 09:35:14

Awesome.  Maybe I need to just do results. :)

Give me an update on who is champions, dominant, etc.
PlutarPosted on 06/22/09 at 00:39:47

Misawa is by far the most dominant wrestler in the history of my NWA. What's always challenging about running an un-booked circuit are the unexpected stars. Ice Train and Roadblock have been tearing up my Super-Heavyweight Division. But the surprises are all part of the fun :) Here Are my Current Champs, as of December 1995.

(1) NWA World Championship: Mitsuharu Misawa
(2) NWA Championship: Rick Rude
(3) NWA World Tag Team Championship: The Rougeau Brothers
(Jacques Rougeau/Raymond Rougeau)
(4) NWA United States Championship: Too Cold Scorpio
(5) NWA Intercontinental Championship: Virus
(6) NWA Television Championship: Ice Train
(7) NWA World Junior Heavyweight Championship: Negro Casas
(8) NWA National Trios Championship: The Shooters (Frank
Shamrock/Ken Shamrock/Royce Gracie)
(9) NWA Young Lions Cup: Perro Aguayo Jr.
(10) NWA Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Championship: Los Hermanos
Casas (Felino/Negro Casas)
(11) NWA World Super Heavyweight Championship: Ice Train
(12) NWA Hardcore Championship: Sabu
(13) NWA Heavyweight Championship: Mitsuharu Misawa
(14) NWA World Mixed Martial Arts Championship: Ken Shamrock


Drunken FoolPosted on 06/29/09 at 17:44:38

On 06/21/09 at 00:17:03, Snabbit888 wrote:

Not in 1969 they aren't, which is where my circuit currently is.
Buddy Rogers died in 1992 (wikipedia is your friend)
TheImpalerTMXPosted on 06/30/09 at 01:20:59

On 06/29/09 at 17:44:38, Drunken Fool wrote:

Buddy Rogers died in 1992 (wikipedia is your friend)
He did say die OR retire.
Snabbit888Posted on 06/30/09 at 05:02:10

On 06/29/09 at 17:44:38, Drunken Fool wrote:

Buddy Rogers died in 1992 (wikipedia is your friend)
So is reading what I said in my post before you try to be witty in a condescending way.
Drunken FoolPosted on 06/30/09 at 20:39:01

On 06/30/09 at 05:02:10, Snabbit888 wrote:

So is reading what I said in my post before you try to be witty in a condescending way.
Apologies, I just had a really off week.
nWo84Posted on 06/30/09 at 22:23:17

just had a five star match... the first in my iwa circut...

chris benoit 100,92,100,93 (wr,p,s,c)
and
owen hart 95,80,95,85 (wr,sp,s,c)

i guess just by looking at it i find it kinda wierd that benoit's charisma is higher than owens...
nWo84Posted on 06/30/09 at 22:48:59

just had another one with my iwa circut.

the beverly brothers vs the road warriors

beau beverly 89,85,90,92
blake beverly 88,85,85,90
animal 85,95,90,95
hawk 85,95,90,95

all 4 guys with workrates under 90 and a 5 star match... thats cool!

Snabbit888Posted on 07/01/09 at 06:04:17

Animal and Hawk probably have workrates too high either way, but that's still impressive.
Drunken FoolPosted on 07/01/09 at 15:38:15

Just had one in my EPW circuit, which I will post a little later on today:

Triangle Match:
Mike Quackenbush defeated Adam Pearce and Kory Chavis when M. Quackenbush
pinned K. Chavis with the Quackendriver in 0:48:34.
Rating: *****
[Prince Nana interfered against Mike Quackenbush.]
[Prince Nana interfered against Kory Chavis.]
nWo84Posted on 07/02/09 at 02:24:50

On 07/01/09 at 06:04:17, Snabbit888 wrote:Animal and Hawk probably have workrates too high either way, but that's still impressive.
i thought so too.. they both quit! as well as the beverly brothers... lets see if the headshrinkers and strike force can have one too.. haha