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Kokina Clutch

RavynPosted on 04/13/06 at 14:20:54

Hi Guys,

I've just seen that TNM spells Samoa Joe's finisher as the "Kokina Clutch"...shouldn't it be "Coquina"?  As in "Rock Clutch"?

Ravyn
Rick GarrardPosted on 04/13/06 at 14:47:25

Well, Yokozuna used to be called Kokina Maximus in the AWA.  Perhaps it's a reference to him?
rey619Posted on 04/13/06 at 15:46:04

i think it is spelled Kokina... take a look at TNA's website, maybe they have it listed under Joe's profile or something.
kurropt_antagonistPosted on 04/13/06 at 16:11:51

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoa_Joe

Finishing moves
* The Choke (ROH) / Coquina Clutch (TNA) (Rear naked choke)
Wikipedia is your friend.  :)
Snabbit888Posted on 04/14/06 at 00:29:59

I have always seen it referred to as Kokina.
Rick GarrardPosted on 04/14/06 at 01:34:22

Just cause Wikipedia is your friend, doesn't mean that it's always right.  A human put that info there, and more often than not, said wiki-info is highly inaccurate and sometimes even totally and completely wrong.  

And FWIW, it really is Kokina.

And the TNAWrestling.com site with Joe's profile just calls it a choke sleeper, which technically makes it an illegal move since it's a choke hold.
RavynPosted on 04/14/06 at 02:37:00

Does anyone know if Kokina has a legitament meaning, even in another language?  Because it would seem very strange to spell a move like that with no outside meaning?  My money is on Coquina, simply because it's the right pronouncation and actually has a legitament meaning behind it.
RavynPosted on 04/14/06 at 03:14:03

Some further clarification:

Samoa Joe's official website lists finishers as:

Signature Maneuvers:
Choke Sleeper / Choke Sleeper Clutch
Island Driver
Chimeraplex
Dragon Suplex Hold
C.C.S. Enzuigiri
Avalanche Muscle Buster

One thing I will say about the move is that from a Jiu Jitsu/Judo standpoint (which the move is derived from) it's simply a Rear Naked Choke.  Illegal, technically, I'm sure.  But permissable, because 'they say so'.  So whether RNC would be a better description I'm not sure, or Choke Sleeper Clutch.  Did Tenay just invent the name for it as Coquina/Kokina?  Although I just found this in Wiki as well:

"Joe's Coquina Clutch is often misspelled to Kokina Clutch "

For the record, a bastard of a move to get caught in...

Ravyn
Rick GarrardPosted on 04/14/06 at 03:20:11

No as I stated before Yokozuna was once named in Verne Gagne's AWA "Kokina Maximus" and that's how it was spelled on EPSN broadcasts of the AWA. The move's name is in honor of Yokozuna. It's a Tenay thing. And from the "oh so great wiki".... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Anoai

On a side note, ANYONE can edit ANY wiki entry at any time to have it read what they want. :)

edit:  After reading Joe's website (samoajoe.com), Joe's myspace and Joe's diary, FAQ and various other things, including but not limited to his TNA and ROH profile pages, only is his finisher listed as the "Coquina Clutch" on the wiki site.  No where else is it listed as such INCLUDING on his own TNA profile page, which leads me to believe that once again Mike Tenay is just making stuff up to sound smart.  

And what's the deal with the TNA ring announcer... did they hire Penzer full time now to replace Borash?
CrplsPosted on 04/14/06 at 07:41:30

And the TNAWrestling.com site with Joe's profile just calls it a choke sleeper, which technically makes it an illegal move since it's a choke hold.
Choke sleepers are completely legal. As are guillotine chokes. :)
JustinPosted on 04/14/06 at 14:24:45

It seems to be his version of the Tazzmission. Since both he & Tazz are big on Judo it seems a logical choice.

YunPosted on 04/14/06 at 17:14:16

According to Tenay, Kokina is the Samoan word for "Chokehold." Which would make "Kokina" more likely, as "Coquina" would imply a European origin for the word.</Linguist>

Edit: I looked it up. Samoan does not use the letters C and Q, which means that, assuming Tenay is correct, "Kokina" is the proper spelling. Considering Tenay has access to Joe himself, I have no reason to doubt him.
RavynPosted on 04/17/06 at 03:39:25

On 04/14/06 at 17:14:16, Yun wrote:According to Tenay, Kokina is the Samoan word for "Chokehold." Which would make "Kokina" more likely, as "Coquina" would imply a European origin for the word.</Linguist>

Edit: I looked it up. Samoan does not use the letters C and Q, which means that, assuming Tenay is correct, "Kokina" is the proper spelling. Considering Tenay has access to Joe himself, I have no reason to doubt him.
Yun, that is great!  Fantastic result, same word, technically, just entirely localised spelling.  Tremendous.

Kokina it is.  And for the record Justin, the Tazzmission is a half-nelson rear choke, although similiar, different moves, to Joe's RNC.  A close cousin, you might say.

Thanks Yun,

Ravyn