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TNM Awards
| H8-Superstar | Posted on 12/11/04 at 18:59:20 Come on pitch in your shill. PPV of the Year should also be named indies Event of the Year. Hence the PWG shows I nominated. Vote for Rob Feinstein at Worst Non-Wrestler. Trying to have sex with 14 year old is automatic clincher for the sicko. SoCal wrestling baby! |
| Oliver Copp | Posted on 12/11/04 at 19:01:52 * forcing * myself * not * to * comment * :) |
| 91 | Posted on 12/11/04 at 19:49:16 Hey Ol, chuck us some free plugins and I'll vote for you as best non-wrestler. :P |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 12/11/04 at 20:54:03On 12/11/04 at 18:59:20, H8-Superstar wrote:Come on pitch in your shill. PPV of the Year should also be named indies Event of the Year. Hence the PWG shows I nominated.Damn, I forgot about Feinstein when I voted. That whole mess could have killed ROH if management and the wrestlers had been less dedicated. Amusingly, the staff of ROH has taken to wearing Perverted Justice (the site which caught RF) T-Shirts when they end up in the same building as people who work for RFVideo. That said, I think it falls outside of the scope of the poll, since he isn't actually a character. If there were a "Worst Promoter" category, he'd be a lock for it. As for pimping things... vote CM Punk vs. Samoa Joe at the 10/16 ROH show as Match of the Year! Meltzer called it the first ***** match in North America since the 1997 Michaels vs. 'Taker HIAC! Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |
| 91 | Posted on 12/11/04 at 21:17:55 I'm thinking he was a little stingy with the odd match here and there if he thinks there hasn't been a single ***** match in seven years. |
| H8-Superstar | Posted on 12/11/04 at 23:45:06 I haven't seen a match on *****. The closest I seen was Super Dragon/American Dragon vs X-Foundation at PWG Tango and Cash Invitational which is around **** 1/2. That is my match of the year. It's most likely JBL will be voted in worst of categories when he shouldn't be. Despite iffy workrate I would skip all of that because his gimmick and mic work made it work for me. He turn me into a JBL fan. |
| Oliver Copp | Posted on 12/12/04 at 00:39:38 I really like how he developed his character. It's a long way from the old Bradshaw days. What I don't buy, though, is him as a main eventer. |
| 91 | Posted on 12/12/04 at 00:51:00 Well there are worse workers than JBL, but I think a lot of the hatred stems from the fact that none of them are main eventing. That and I think he's a bit of a racist, but I'll grant him decent mic skills and a very good on-screen personality. |
| blslivewire | Posted on 12/12/04 at 07:55:15 The worst wrestlers have to be Big Slow & Kane. Remember when they squared off a few years ago? I never ran them in TNM but it'd have to be a -*****! |
| H8-Superstar | Posted on 12/12/04 at 08:06:40 Ollie some of these feds are dead like XPW since last year. Same goes with Al Wilson who hasn't been on since he had his "heart attack" :) |
| Hawk | Posted on 12/12/04 at 10:06:09 El Hijo Del Perro Aguayo is my wrestler of the year, followed by Hector Garza. If you don't know those names, you should look into them. Aguayo pulled off the best heel turn of this decade thus far, and is currently the very top heel of CMLL in a blood feud with El Hijo Del Santo. |
| Oliver Copp | Posted on 12/12/04 at 11:09:08 Thanks, H8. Something is always bound to be overlooked when updating the nominations ;) |
| 91 | Posted on 12/12/04 at 15:04:35On 12/12/04 at 07:55:15, blslivewire wrote:The worst wrestlers have to be Big Slow & Kane. Remember when they squared off a few years ago? I never ran them in TNM but it'd have to be a -*****!Big Show always seems to be an arguable one, but there are WAY worse than Kane. |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 12/12/04 at 15:31:16On 12/12/04 at 07:55:15, blslivewire wrote:The worst wrestlers have to be Big Slow & Kane. Remember when they squared off a few years ago? I never ran them in TNM but it'd have to be a -*****!HEI-DEN-REICH! HEI-den-REICH! Hei-DEN-REICH! HEI-DEN-reich! He's had one match past ** ever that I've seen, and is by all accounts dangerous to face in the ring because he accidentally injures people. Poor Stevie Richards... Gene Snitsky is decidedly subpar, but his gimmick is so bad it's good. Tyson Tomko managed to have the worst match of the year this year, and you can't blame it on Stevie because all he was allowed to do was bump. I believe those were my picks for worst wrestlers this year. Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |
| 91 | Posted on 01/02/05 at 16:44:57 Damn, Olly's E-Mail just reminded me there's only a couple of days of voting and I can't remember which categories I have and haven't voted on. |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 01/06/05 at 18:41:28 Looks like the Year End Awards are out. A few comments: John Heidenreich and Heidenreich should be combined in Worst Wrestler. They're the same guy, after all. What the heck is Mid America Extreme wrestling, and why is it a close fourth in Best Promotion with the Rookie of the Year in their ranks? Have I been totally missing something? A Google search for '"Mid America Extreme" Wrestling' reveals that it apparently has no webpage, and there are only 7 references to it that google can find. Is there some huge underground movement in Chicago that nobody is noticing, or did a TNM user who either likes or works for the promotion get a bunch of fans to vote for it? I was surprised by how well TNA did this year, considering all the complaints I hear about them. I guess National TV exposure (even with a lousy timeslot) and PPV counts for a lot. Also. Since Austin Aries has since won the ROH Title, I feel justified in voting him as the Rookie of the Year. Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |
| Y2p731 | Posted on 01/06/05 at 23:26:35 I really liked when the results came out. I can't believe that I completely missed voting for Rob" perverted Fun Athletic Guy" Feinstein. I also read on the editor's note on "Carlos" Caribbean Cool. Seriously I was looking for Carlito.....Oliver. - Dave Nguyen |
| Oliver Copp | Posted on 01/07/05 at 00:20:29 Sorry for missing the Heidenreich / John Heidenreich thing in Worst Wrestler. I spent the better part of the last two days cleaning up the chaos created by some "wacky" additions on part of the voters. Mid America Extreme might have the advantage of their tapes being available freely for download on the Internet in some circles. The votes came from several different IP ranges, so a few people voting over and over isn't likely. |
| Oliver Copp | Posted on 01/07/05 at 00:22:06 Dave, when you let people come up with their own nominations, misspellings are the norm rather than the exception. It's no big deal normally ;) Thanks, Oliver |
| Y2p731 | Posted on 01/07/05 at 03:35:16On 01/07/05 at 00:22:06, Oliver Copp wrote:Dave,Okay, sounds fair. |
| Snabbit888 | Posted on 01/07/05 at 05:54:45 www.maxwrestling.com http://pub43.bravenet.com/forum/3625903877/fetch/389684/ If they weren't fudged votes (i.e. multiple from he same IP), then they have themselves a loyal bunch of people. I still have a hard time buying that a federation no one has ever heard of could do that without a bit of tomfoolery, but hey, I'm a pessimist. |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 01/07/05 at 06:07:00 What is the voting system, anyway? 5 for first, 3 for second, and 1 for third? That'd mean that there were 3000 people voting for MAX as first place, which seems fishy as Ryan said. MAX appears to be a very small local indy from the Chicago area that broke off from NWA Mid Atlantic. I suppose that if they have a newsletter or something they could possibly have gotten that many people to vote, though. Either that or there was some less legitimate ballot stuffing. Don't know. Not like it's critically important, or anything. The idea of people going through that much trouble to influence the TNM awards is a bit amusing, actually. For those who care about the awards, I'd suggest disregarding the MAX stuff, since Ryan's link proves that there was some effort to stuff the ballot box. Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |
| Oliver Copp | Posted on 01/07/05 at 07:59:48On 01/07/05 at 05:54:45, Snabbit888 wrote:www.maxwrestling.comMultiple votes from the same IP cancel out one another as all votes are logged with timestamp, browser version, OS version (including patch level) and IP address. If something of that sort happened, it was done in a professional, i.e. not in an obvious, way. Also, I'm not sure it's such a bad thing if you ask your followers to vote. The TNM Awards got plugs in at least three newsletters and on two major websites, so in that sense, it should be fair game to plug them on a "promotion" website. The one thing I understand people having issues with is asking to vote for certain people. Then again, I won't start randomly disqualifying people that were voted for at my discretion because at that point, I could just fix the Awards myself. |
| H8-Superstar | Posted on 01/07/05 at 08:51:38 I thought MidAmerica Xtreme was Mid-America Wrestling, a garbage fed. Anyway, glad PWG gets in top 5. If I seen Survivor Series earlier I would have that in Best PPV award. Can't believe no one even bother to nominate ROH shows. I did nominate PWG shows and there was no problem. Taboo Tuesday....it's one of those PPVs where the matches suck but somehow in your mind you thought it was good PPV. Maybe it was the "innovative substance" surrounded the PPV and the booking afterwards. Now I figure why last year Survivor Series 2003 was in top 3. If RAW Divas Search was nominated earlier it would have on top. The angle was so good I made the switch watching Monday Night Football. It didn't help when most of MNF were good games. |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 01/07/05 at 20:11:20 I'd have nominated ROH shows, but the category for best show is specifically called "Best Pay Per View." ROH doesn't do PPVs, so I didn't consider their shows in contention. I suspect a lot of people felt the same. Now that one of the Big 3 (or more accurately the Big 1 and Little 2) isn't televised and doesn't have PPV shows, perhaps this should be changed in future awards. And Oliver, I'm not suggesting that you disqualify MAX. Just mentioning that without the ballot box being stuffed by people outside of the TNM community and/or someone with a good idea of how to hack this sort of thing and much too much free time, it likely wouldn't have shown up. As such, I personally am disregarding their results because they're not representative of the people being polled. I'm not suggesting that you throw the results out because you have no evidence that the votes were illegitimate. Besides, the added traffic caused by fans brought to the site because the polls were mentioned in newsletters etc. may well have generated some more business for you. It would be bad business for you to discourage outside participation. Out of curiosity, how many people voted this year, and how does it compare to past years? Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |
| 91 | Posted on 01/07/05 at 20:59:12 Oh yeah, here's a question I was pondering - why no Hall of Fame this year? Now there may well have not been one last year either and I'm just not paying attention, but still... |
| H8-Superstar | Posted on 01/08/05 at 07:13:21 Here's my opinion why there's no Hall of Fame. Every legend out there been picked and inducted in past TNM Awards. Also if a wrestler dies expect that wrestler to be on top 10 votes. |
| Oliver Copp | Posted on 01/08/05 at 12:23:38 And your opinion is right on the money. I don't feel like it was a good idea opening up a TNM Hall Of Fame because there really is no reason why it would mean anything in the big picture. It'd be like the countless people trying to get some attention for their websites by handing out such honors. |
| 91 | Posted on 01/08/05 at 12:37:13 Makes sense to me. Plus Mick Foley being inducted twice was a little weird as well, but fair play. ;) |
| Pulsar | Posted on 01/10/05 at 06:39:54 I say we vote right now. Mick Foley Hall of Fame 2004?? All agreed? Ok, it's settle, the trifecta for Mick. (someone please spell trifecta for me) |
| 91 | Posted on 01/10/05 at 17:48:48 Trifecta. That's right. |
| The_Mat_Maniac | Posted on 01/13/05 at 23:30:30 Let me clear up a few things There was no ballot box stuffing at all for MidAmerica eXtreme. They have a good loyal group of fans...as well as a group of loyal wrestlers. MAX Wrestling is based out of Alton IL (no where near Chicago - and was not a part of any other group), and has been in operation for a a year plus. Their web site is www.maxwrestling.com. As Oliver said..theres no way to do "stuffing", as he saw to it that there couldnt be. MAX did advertise TNM at shows as well. Its not out of the TNM circle, cause the person who nominated it, Myself, has been around within the TNM structure since 1996. I helped and continue to help Beta it for years (mentioned in the Thanks To part of TNM, but only by real name)..and Oliver can attest to that. Just because everyone hasnt heard of a group or wrestler, doesnt mean a good number of people havent heard of it. MAX wrestling does better shows than Gateway Championship Wrestling, South Broadway Wrestling (MMWA-SICW), Rampage Championship Wrestling, etc..that run in the same area. Give a group a chance I say...they have a good training center/school - remember...everyone started somewhere. Alot of Midwest guys/gals got into the top ten of the awards (Ms Chif, Spoiled Steven Kennedy, Dexter Poindexter, Cory Pillman, Stunning Shane Marx, Dr. Harvard Cornell 3rd, Mephisto, Myself - The Mat Maniac, Jeremy Lightfoot, Butch Fletcher (who is the owner of MAX wrestling too) ) as well as local groups such as RCW, MAX, and Gateway Championship Wrestling. Word of mouth is how groups get noticed more. Think of where ECW or ROH or CZW were at first...then word of mouth and advertising pays off. Besides...MAX is about the only actual wrestling group so far to mention TNM during a show (and use the award results as a match build up).. :) :P :P :P The Mat Maniac #9 Best Non Wrestler #9 Worst Commentator (and Proud of It) Midwest ProWrestling Manager www.thematmaniac.com :P :P :P |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 01/14/05 at 04:43:09 And that would explain where all the votes came from. Thanks a lot for clearing that up, Mat Maniac. Much appreciated. I thought it was odd that there were a lot of people I didn't recognise in the awards (Ms. Chif is the only one that's familiar from the list there). Considering you advertise TNM at your shows and have such a loyal local following, it makes a lot more sense now, and I certainly can't find much fault in it. Here's hoping a few of the people that voted downloaded the program and decided it was worth the purchase - Oliver has worked really hard on it, and I'd be glad to see him get the business. Incidentally, using the results of the poll as the basis for an angle is just hilarious. Very clever. If I lived in the Chicago area I'd probably check you guys out. Considering I live in Philly, I've got more quality indy wrestling within an hour or so than I could possibly ever spend money on, but if anyone from your area asks me about local stuff, I'll be sure to point them toward you guys. Thanks again for clearing that up. Glad your fans care about your product enough that they're willing to support it like that. :) Best wishes, and maybe next year you can make #8 in the worst commentator category! ;D Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |
| The_Mat_Maniac | Posted on 01/14/05 at 06:16:04On 01/14/05 at 04:43:09, Critic of the Dawn wrote:And that would explain where all the votes came from. Thanks a lot for clearing that up, Mat Maniac. Much appreciated.Actually...if you drove from Philly to Chicago to check us out...Youd be too far away..:) as I said ..Not in the Chicago area.. Yeah..Im hoping a few people check out the program and if they like it...buy it...would like to arrange something with Oliver down the line of perhaps cd's to sell at the shows for him..:) Yeah..the angle was Spoiled Steven Kennedy upset about only making #9 Underrated..when he is Wrestler of the year..and about Cory's family and detention officers voting for him as Best Rookie..:) YOu could point some of us in the direction of some of the groups up there..for perhaps a future booking... As for Next year for Worst Commentator..I hope NOT to get it at all..I HATE commentating..:) The Mat Maniac |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 01/14/05 at 06:28:08 Eh. Anything in Illinois is close to Chicago compared to Philly. ;D Good luck in working out some kind of deal. New blood in a community is never a bad thing. Well, unless it's Bad Blood. Because that's sort of bad by default. Unless it's a WWE PPV. Then it might be good and it might suck. Hard to say. Sounds like a couple of hilarious angles. No wonder your fans enjoy your product. :) If I had any formal connections with the PA/DE/NJ indies, I'd be glad to point you to them. Unfortuantely, I'm simply a fan. ROH is my main poison of choice at the moment. As I've been known to say, it's good to have Kool-Aid in Philly again, even if it's a different color now. Check the websites of ROH, CZW, 3PW, etc. Maybe there will be contact information there. Dunno. You might have better luck speaking to a wrestler who has established himself in this market and seeing if they can put you in touch with anyone. From what I understand, Alex Shelley, CM Punk, and Samoa Joe all have livejournals and/or websites. Might be contact info to be found. Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |
| The_Mat_Maniac | Posted on 01/14/05 at 18:15:20On 01/14/05 at 06:28:08, Critic of the Dawn wrote:Eh. Anything in Illinois is close to Chicago compared to Philly. ;DWell...what I meant was about groups in Philly...I meant what groups to you go to to watch...just to give a thought of the product up there :) thats all..:) Thanks for the comliment on our product. Me and Beast are hoping to branch out and do other stuff again...along with MAX wrestling (want to try to get into WLW ) The Mat Maniac |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 01/14/05 at 18:47:33 Ah. Well, as I said before, my Kool-Aid of choice at the moment is Ring of Honor, which is in my opinion the top wrestling product in terms of quality in the country at the moment. Since I'm presently dirt poor, I don't get to attend as many shows as I'd like, but if I had a few extra bucks I'd probably make sure to see all the ROH shows in my area plus check out ECWA and 3PW. CZW I'd probably give a miss because I don't really care for deathmatches (which is kind of funny, since my favorite wrestler of all time is Foley and I live in Philly which was the home of ECW). Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |
| Rick Garrard | Posted on 01/15/05 at 01:44:18 I'm still trying to get The Mat Maniac to buy back his autographed picture of himself that he sent along with one of the items I won in his charity auction a couple years ago that I believe was linked to through the old TNM site. ;) The autographed picture of the celebrity I got was great... it was the one of the Maniac himself that was the one scared the holy hot wings out of me when I opened the package. Nice to see you here Maniac. Always great to see long time users post on the boards. And glad to hear you're still in the business. |
| The_Mat_Maniac | Posted on 01/15/05 at 06:58:24On 01/15/05 at 01:44:18, Rick Garrard wrote:I'm still trying to get The Mat Maniac to buy back his autographed picture of himself that he sent along with one of the items I won in his charity auction a couple years ago that I believe was linked to through the old TNM site. ;)Which one did you win? :) and Heck...I wont take back mine....I wont even bid on mine when it gets on eBay (for 1.99..and it wasnt me that put it up there too).. Yep...been around for along while..still enjoy the business...(despite all the politics and BS thats out there) The Mat Maniac |
| The_Mat_Maniac | Posted on 01/15/05 at 06:59:04 Oh...and another chairity auction is happening soon too... info at www.geocities.com/starbaserevolution37th MM |
| Rick Garrard | Posted on 01/15/05 at 16:21:44 I won in the first auction that starbase had. I believe it was the auto'ed Ray Stevens picture. And when I went back to see the results from the first auction, I found that one of my buddies from college had won just about half of the star trek related stuff. I missed the second auction completely. But have already ventured to the third auction site, right after I replied to your post to go read up on Alton's own MAX Wrestling. Looking forward to it starting. And unlike the folks that think it's in Chicago, I know where it is. :) Worldly traveler that I am. You're on the opposite side of the Mississippi from St. Louis up around or near 370 on the north side. (I drive through that area 3 or 4 times a year) So for those of you reading this that are geopgraphically inept... you'd be better off checking out MAX Wrestling by going to St. Louis than going to Chicago. :) |
| Snabbit888 | Posted on 01/15/05 at 17:06:43 My ex-girlfriend is from around that area. Maybe that's why I desperately wanted to think MAX was in Chicago. ;) |
| The_Mat_Maniac | Posted on 01/15/05 at 17:20:38On 01/15/05 at 16:21:44, Rick Garrard wrote:I won in the first auction that starbase had. I believe it was the auto'ed Ray Stevens picture. And when I went back to see the results from the first auction, I found that one of my buddies from college had won just about half of the star trek related stuff.Damn..You do know the area....if ever going to be in the area during a show...let me know...Ill comp you myself..:) (Cahokia tonight... Jerseyville IL on the 5th of Feb).. Yeah..the first auction was fun but a pain to do..(since I had to update the site myself)...the 2nd one was crap...was done on eBay... so I dunno which Im going to do yet...but now I have some better stuff..from contacts and such..:) The Mat Maniac |
| The_Mat_Maniac | Posted on 01/15/05 at 17:22:53On 01/15/05 at 17:06:43, Snabbit888 wrote:My ex-girlfriend is from around that area. Maybe that's why I desperately wanted to think MAX was in Chicago. ;)I understand completely..:) The Mat Maniac |