On 05/30/03 at 18:41:27, Oliver Copp wrote:I'll make it short and sweet.

TNM 7. Second Edition.

More than 25 new features.

Interested in getting your hands on it ? Then check back here regularly. I'll release new information as soon as it's available.

Finished so far:

3) Illegal non-submission moves.
11) Card multipliers which tell TNM 7 to only deduct a card from a hired wrestler's contract every X cards.
13) Print roster to file.
14) Backing out of the hiring process will be possible.
15) Limits on the number of titles and circuits will be eliminated.
19) Overall rating for a card will be computed.
20) Option to turn off injuries.
23) Special move: "leads to finisher" and "illegal" checkboxes work properly in all cases.

Currently in the works:

1) New situations for DQs, double DQs.
4) Expanded referee interaction with the combatants.
7) Several new spots inside the matches.
8) More flexible wording and commentary.
24) Spots for masked wrestlers.

"What are the numbers not listed ?" I hear you ask. Check back here to find out - development is going on constantly.

More soon.

On 05/31/03 at 09:42:51, Oliver Copp wrote:Learned from my mistakes.... can you say TNM 7 Gold *g* ?

Seriously, I don't want to publish the new features until they have been 100% finished.

On 06/01/03 at 06:49:05, ggazoo wrote:Not suee if you're still listening to suggestions Oliver, but I've always wanted to see the ability to have cornermen in matches, without having to create them as a manager first. Just a thought.

On 05/31/03 at 19:43:46, Snabbit888 wrote:Here's hoping one of the new features not listed is the ability to use title belts as foreign objects. I've wanted that so bad for awhile. :)

On 05/31/03 at 20:00:31, 91 wrote:WOOOOO! Who ever said TNM was dead? What're the new situations for the DQ's? Or are we just gonna have to wait and find out?

Oh yeah, and would I be right in assuming that you can slap it on your current TNM folder without losing your circuit or anything?

On 06/01/03 at 06:49:05, ggazoo wrote:Not suee if you're still listening to suggestions Oliver, but I've always wanted to see the ability to have cornermen in matches, without having to create them as a manager first. Just a thought.

On 06/01/03 at 20:32:36, Oliver Copp wrote:

In what way should they be able to participate in the match ? If you need them to be able to actually be their wrestling persona, chances aren't good. Otherwise I think such a feature is already in there but not exposed (i.e., available through the user interface).

I remember seeing that in 6.2 Plus, but I have never seen that in TNM 7.

On 06/02/03 at 05:38:56, TNM_Junkie wrote:

The corner man would be used in a "Towel Match" and you enter the name of your corner person, as it is not by default the manager / valet who comes with the wrestler, if he/she has one.

Sam

On 06/02/03 at 15:05:42, 91 wrote:Feature 19) - will I be right in saying the overall rating will be an average of all the match ratings or are you gonna be all uber-mathematical with it?

I was under the impression that the question was general.  Like having Nunzio come out with Chuck Palumbo but not necessarily having him be listed as a manager.

- unmasking a wrestler

On 06/02/03 at 20:01:01, Oliver Copp wrote:

Actually, it's going to be a weighted average rating meaning that the main event will count considerably more than the opening match towards card quality.

On 06/03/03 at 02:48:52, 91 wrote:

How about match times and such, do they (or anything else) figure? Not to drive it into the ground, but it sounds like a cool feature, and I know how you love to address your public really. ;)

On 06/03/03 at 06:00:17, HugeRockStar760 wrote:

I am wondering if interviews will count towards the overall show rating, too.

On 06/03/03 at 02:48:52, 91 wrote:

How about match times and such, do they (or anything else) figure? Not to drive it into the ground, but it sounds like a cool feature, and I know how you love to address your public really. ;)

On 06/03/03 at 05:46:31, Critic_of_the_Dawn wrote:Oh, just had another thought. With the card multiplier feature for longer contracts, etc, will your wrestlers still injure themselves, give notice, etc, on cards that don't count against the length of their contracts? Or will this only happen on cards that "count" so to speak?

Eric "Critic of the Dawn"

On 06/03/03 at 06:00:17, HugeRockStar760 wrote:

I am wondering if interviews will count towards the overall show rating, too.

On 06/03/03 at 05:37:31, Critic_of_the_Dawn wrote:Speaking of unmasking masked wrestlers, what happens if they're unmasked?

A few suggestions (perhaps the outcome can be randomly determined?):

...

Eric "Critic of the Dawn"

On 06/03/03 at 08:34:42, 91 wrote:

Yeah, I was wondering that whilst lying in bed earlier. Particularly if the last thing you book is an interview. OK, Raw style "main event interviews" right after the big Stevie Richards vs Maven match are annoying and I would be happy to see something like detract from a shows rating but what if you're running one of your shows and you have your big hyped main event, then for angle purposes, a short interview immediately stemming off from the match?

For example, Mr. A defends the title against Corporal B when Newcomer C runs out and helps B win, and then B grabs the mic (cue interview plugin) and goes "hahaha, C is here and I'm the new champion".

On 06/03/03 at 13:16:11, peter wrote:Also how about making battle royals for titles too. I know this was done as a registered user thing but how about making it a proper feature?

On 06/03/03 at 13:26:54, MAT wrote:I've always liked this idea. You know how you can set the Typical Match Length in the General Options. Well if you were to put this where you are choosing the options for the match, then you could make sure a certain match would be short and one would be long.

By this I mean you could set a opening match as 5 to be short, a midcard match could be 7 to be medium length and main events or important matches 10 to be long.

Just a thought I had.

On 06/03/03 at 13:11:48, peter wrote:How about making tag team cage matches more realisitic by not having the partners tag each other in and out. Surely they would have to be in the ring at the same time.

As for the interview rating idea I couldnt see it working myself. How about the lemgth of the promo in being recorded? I twould then added something to the overall statistics. For example on the interview plugin screen in would have Details, Ok and Time Allocation. So the user could put in say 0:05:00 and this would be added onto the length of the card.

On 06/03/03 at 11:06:57, Oliver Copp wrote:

If you give me an idea how to realistically (!) determine the quality of an interview, I'm all for it.

On 06/03/03 at 15:29:46, Oliver Copp wrote:

I'm not sure I'm following. It is a proper feature.

Do you mean turning off the spot or turning off the DQ ? Obviously, if the ref isn't looking or if DQs have been switched off for the match, there won't be any action if a wrestler is unmasked.

Would it be an option to expand booking like this:

1) You can set a time for the match to end. Determining a winner and/or a finishing more is optional.
2) You can predetermine the winner. Time and finish are optional.
3) You can predetermine the finish with time and winner being optional.

I think that should cover your request and basically most others dealing with booking. Not sure, though, if it is something that others see as a high priority. Input please  

On 06/03/03 at 10:56:28, Oliver Copp wrote:

I was thinking of that but I really don't know how. It's tough for a computer to judge if an interview was "good" or not. Heck, if you put five fans in a room and subject them to listening to an interview, one will think it was great, one will think it was good, two will think it was ok and one will think it sucked ;-)

Well, is there some way that the computer can recognize the difference between The Rock doing an interview and perhaps 3 Minute Warning doing one?  More times than not a Rock interview is going to be better than the 3 Minute Warning interview because The Rock has higher charisma and is more over.

On 06/03/03 at 21:33:43, LillaThrilla wrote:

-heat levels of everyone in the interview, especially if they're on the Who's Hot or Who's Cold list.

On 06/03/03 at 10:46:47, Oliver Copp wrote:

All card-related things will only happen on cards that "count". Or would you want to have it differently ?

Injuries can happen all the time.

On 06/03/03 at 11:00:55, Oliver Copp wrote:

The natural reaction is for the wrestler minus mask to try and get his mask back to put it back on (which would be 8.) :-)

All 7 of your suggestions have either already been implemented or are on their way into the program. Thanks :-)

Option number 3 will probably lead to a new spot for all babyfaces: a "hot streak" when something really groundbreaking happens which sees their push increase momentarily and boots both morale and energy.

On 06/04/03 at 04:00:08, CGold wrote:I am a little confused about the discussion of the cornerman, I am not sure what others would want but I wouldn't mind having the option of having a non manager corner man who acts like a manager.  In other words If Kevin Nash were to face Triple H, there would be a special cornerman option, where I could place Shawn Michaels in Nash's corner and Ric Flair in H's corner, I realize some would want them to be able to do there moves but I would settle for normal manager style interference as this option would help in the building of an over all angle, this would also work good in a match where you have say Kane taking on Sylvan Grenier with RVD in Kane's corner and Rene Dupree in Grenier's corner, I believe there is a string where managers cause double dq's and think this would be a cool feature.  Again I don't know if it's possible but just a thought.

On 06/03/03 at 16:12:58, MAT wrote:Sorry, I didnt make myself clear. If you set the Typical Match Length to say 5 (quite short) then all the matches would be that length, including ones you would like to be longer like the main event.

What I meant is that in the options after you select the wrestlers, you could chose to specify the match length, meaning on a card you could have matches with different lengths e.g. opening match could be set as 5, then the main event set as 10. (the whole point of this is that I sometimes have opening matches going 20mins, and main events lasting 10mins)

On 06/03/03 at 16:48:48, 91 wrote:

I'm guessing what he meant was enabling titles to be defended in a battle royal, as opposed to it being for a vacant title. That said, I don't see it as being that necessary - I just vacate the title, have the match, and edit the result slightly so it doesn't make reference to it being for a vacant title.

On 06/03/03 at 19:11:22, LillaThrilla wrote:

I mean turning off if the spot causes a DQ.

Insert two random masked lucha guys. If its a normal match in Mexico, they can get DQed for normal stuff AND mask removal. If its a Mask vs Mask Match, they could get DQed for normal stuff but mask yanking is ok.

On 06/03/03 at 20:15:04, HugeRockStar760 wrote:

Well, is there some way that the computer can recognize the difference between The Rock doing an interview and perhaps 3 Minute Warning doing one? More times than not a Rock interview is going to be better than the 3 Minute Warning interview because The Rock has higher charisma and is more over.

On 06/03/03 at 21:33:43, LillaThrilla wrote:

Hmmm...given what's in TNM7 right now you could probably make an 'interview rating' based on the following:
-charisma of everyone in the interview
-heat levels of everyone in the interview, especially if they're on the Who's Hot or Who's Cold list.
-if the participants are on a match elsewhere on the card and possibly something relating to the placement of the interview vs the match
-what percentenge of wrestlers involved are on each others queues
-bonus for interview participants having titles or being highly ranked

Just some ideas...

On 06/03/03 at 21:41:04, Tom_Imp wrote:Oliver, I'm just curious, will there be new referees added to the second edition since there are new guys out there like Mike Chioda, Nick Patrick, & Charles Robinson to name a few?

On 06/03/03 at 21:44:57, Fighter_Hayabusa wrote:

How does one view the hot/cold list? I think I did this some time ago, but I forgot how. ???

Thanks!

FH

On 06/04/03 at 00:03:54, MookSmash wrote:Wow, I can't wait. Will this upgrade involve more of that updated match commentary? I remember that plug-in as being the last new thing for awhile but it never really got going.

Now I have to figure out how to prove I'm a registered user. I bought this program 5 years ago!

P.S. Thanks for all the help Oliver. Can I still post my e-fed on the site? :'(

On 06/04/03 at 02:10:21, Critic_of_the_Dawn wrote:

That makes sense. I was just curious. Still, more options is never a bad thing. Maybe things could be made more unpredictable with things like wrestlers quitting or giving notice on all cards, not simply those that "count," but with the flat chance of it happening on any given card being multiplied by a factor of one over the card multiplier that the user imputs?

So it'd basically look like this:

1/X * 1/Y = Z

X would be the seed for how often these things happen (As either set by the user if the option is there, or as per the default value), Y the card multiplier, and Z the circuit specific value which would be used.

With that sort of thing in place, you retain the unpredictability TNM7 has now without having an unrealistically high level of people seeking releases.

How's that sound? Is it feasible?

Eric "Critic of the Dawn"

On 06/04/03 at 04:00:08, CGold wrote:I am a little confused about the discussion of the cornerman, I am not sure what others would want but I wouldn't mind having the option of having a non manager corner man who acts like a manager. In other words If Kevin Nash were to face Triple H, there would be a special cornerman option, where I could place Shawn Michaels in Nash's corner and Ric Flair in H's corner, I realize some would want them to be able to do there moves but I would settle for normal manager style interference as this option would help in the building of an over all angle, this would also work good in a match where you have say Kane taking on Sylvan Grenier with RVD in Kane's corner and Rene Dupree in Grenier's corner, I believe there is a string where managers cause double dq's and think this would be a cool feature. Again I don't know if it's possible but just a thought.

On 06/04/03 at 11:51:08, Oliver Copp wrote:

Sure it's possible. It's just a matter of making it work somehow. If this feature is desired by more than just a few people, I'll make it, time permitting.

On 06/04/03 at 16:13:37, Fighter_Hayabusa wrote:Another suggestion: is it possible to have the game announce champions in non-title matches? It would be cool to have the in-0game announcer say "one half of the World Tag Team Champions..." :)
FH

On 06/04/03 at 18:24:15, Oliver Copp wrote:

Finished today: tournaments can now be automatically filled and seeded according to the circuit's ratings.

On 06/04/03 at 11:50:15, Oliver Copp wrote:

Sure it's feasible. Question is just: is it something more people are looking for or should the time to implement it rather be invested into a different feature. I have finite time at my fingertips, and when that time is up, what isn't in won't get in anymore. Hence I'd like to concentrate on things regarded useful by many people.

Thanks !

On 06/04/03 at 22:02:33, Critic_of_the_Dawn wrote:
Obviously you only have finite time to work on this. In my mind, this is worth inclusion because it does a lot to preserve the original unpredictability of the program. That said, if nobody else cares, then I doubt I'll lose any sleep over it.

What's everyone think?

Eric "Critic of the Dawn"

On 06/04/03 at 22:30:31, ggazoo wrote:Hey Oliver,

Just wondering if you were taking the plugin package consideration into TNM7:SE, or if it might be released as a diferent offer altogther (if it's still happening at all)

One thing I want to mention is that TNM 7 registration codes will not work on TNM 7 SE anymore. Hence, everybody who upgrades to TNM 7 SE will automatically get new plugin registration codes.  

On 06/04/03 at 22:49:25, Oliver Copp wrote:

Oh, it is absolutely happening. TNM 7 SE will be available both as a single download as well as maxxed up with everything you'll ever need plugin-wise (i.e., every plugin I have sitting on my desk *g*).

One thing I want to mention is that TNM 7 registration codes will not work on TNM 7 SE anymore. Hence, everybody who upgrades to TNM 7 SE will automatically get new plugin registration codes.

At about the same time, I will also be releasing an upgrade to TNM 7 TweakCirc (free to all registered users of TweakCirc) containing some of the new features which fit into TweakCirc better than into the main program.

On 06/05/03 at 00:17:52, RKL wrote:

Will we have to reinstall TNM7 before updating?

On 06/05/03 at 00:31:38, SnDvls316 wrote:
this brings up another question. sorry if it's been asked before I did not see it.
Since registering way back when I have changed e-mail addresses, but I do still have my original codes. Do I need to do something so I'll be notified to get the new codes.

Also as a frequent "onlooker" but rare poster I'm glad to see all the great stuff Oliver is putting into the game and the TNM community up and running again. I'm a big fan of text games (although my wife can't stand the game and all the papers I keep records/stats/ect. on) and I do have to say that I may go play others, but I always come back to TNM and spend most my time with it.

thanks again Oliver.

On 06/05/03 at 00:52:31, peter wrote:Hey Oliver just wondering about the plugin idea you were working on a while back for 3 and 4 way gimmick matches. Just wondering if this is in SE or if it was a no-go.

Once again thanks for all the work your putting in on it. You've defnitely got my purchase.

On 06/04/03 at 13:48:49, peter wrote:Thanks for the battle royal title option!

How about adding titles to the results screen? It adds text if it was a stipulated match already but would be so much better if it added titles as well. For example

On 06/04/03 at 16:13:37, Fighter_Hayabusa wrote:I'll second (or third, fourth, whatever) the cornerman idea. I really hate adding so many wrestlers to the manager database, then changing managers when I book cards. The cornerman idea would really improve TNM.

On 06/05/03 at 01:49:42, Oliver Copp wrote:

So many people :-)

I've put it on the list in slot #37.

On 06/04/03 at 22:46:45, Oliver Copp wrote:

You've won me over. I'll put it in there.

On 06/05/03 at 04:47:19, Deezer wrote:
1) Differentiation between TV/house shows and PPV's. I recognize this isn't TNM Gold, but it would give booking these shows a slightly different feel.

2) The ability to select a match as the "main event." Take the recent Wrestlemania as an example. While Lesnar vs. Angle closed out the card, Rock vs. Austin was arguably the main event. This would allow a match other than the final one to be considered the main event both in the card results section as well as for a weighted average rating of a show.
.

On 06/05/03 at 03:49:32, FS984 wrote:Hey Oliver. King of Extreme here...this has been mentioned before and I'm not sure if it's a problem to be implemented or is in the process of being taken care of, but would you be able to make it so that you could do a true clean install, not just installing none of the wrestlers, but none of the tag teams, stables, and managers as well? It's quite tedious when you install a copy of TNM for fantasy wrestlers only and have to manually delete all of the above. And I know it's been said many times already, but you're the man for involving your user base so closely in the update process. 'Nuff said.

On 06/05/03 at 04:47:19, Deezer wrote:Hey Oliver, two suggestions here, though both may be entirely cosmetic and thus not worth the effort:

1) Differentiation between TV/house shows and PPV's. I recognize this isn't TNM Gold, but it would give booking these shows a slightly different feel.

2) The ability to select a match as the "main event." Take the recent Wrestlemania as an example. While Lesnar vs. Angle closed out the card, Rock vs. Austin was arguably the main event. This would allow a match other than the final one to be considered the main event both in the card results section as well as for a weighted average rating of a show.

Only problem I see with this last idea is that if you have an interview/angle as the main event, one may not want to flag any particular match as a main event.

Anyone think this sounds worthwhile? Regardless, I'd love to hear if anyone has any improvements to these ideas.

On 06/05/03 at 11:25:14, Zolte1 wrote:This is my first post, though I've been using TNM for years and been browsing this thread heavily since the announcement.

Anywhoo...

Along with the clean install options (no wrestlers, tags, etc.) how about making the other lists (tag team/manager/etc.) like the wrestler list so that you can highlight the ones you want to delete so you can delete more than 1 at a time?

And one question: Will you have to be able to access the registered users area to get TNM7SE? (I have my TNM7 registration code but I lost my access codes a long time ago and can't seem to find the right e-mail address to get them resent)

On 06/05/03 at 15:42:33, 91 wrote:Oliver is now on my christmas card list. Meanwhile, I still wouldn't mind seeing my old idea in there - tag team battle royals/survivor series matches. How feasible would that be?

On 06/05/03 at 17:12:00, John Proulx wrote:Another thought on exports:

Depending on how the importing of moves is going to change (if at all), is there any way to allow the game to import only the moves of wrestlers whom one actually chooses to import from the file and not the moves of all the wrestlers in the file? This would especially be useful for large files like the ALLWREST file.

On 06/05/03 at 20:14:39, Oliver Copp wrote:

What I was thinking about is a two-step export file nuker plugin.

Step 1)
Minimize the export file to the wrestlers you'll actually be importing.

On 06/05/03 at 20:14:39, Oliver Copp wrote:

Step 2)
Check off all moves that you don't want to import - have them replaced by built-in versions.

On 06/05/03 at 20:14:39, Oliver Copp wrote:

Result: a new export file which will ONLY work properly on your particular version of TNM. However, it won't contain any excess baggage anymore, so to speak.

Expect this to come out after TNM 7 SE, though.

On 06/05/03 at 20:11:35, Oliver Copp wrote:

Feature #16 from the list - finished today:

16) Tag Team Battle Royals + Tag Team Elimination Matches

On 06/05/03 at 21:43:05, 91 wrote:

I love you. :)

On 06/05/03 at 08:17:58, Oliver Copp wrote:

Hey King... good to see you here again :-)

This is new item #21 and a definite for TNM 7 SE.

On 06/05/03 at 21:40:01, John Proulx wrote:

Cool. Will it create a new export file, or will I need to create a copy of the export before running it through if I want to keep the old export?

Also cool :) . Does this mean we will have the list of moves in the DB available to choose the replacement in the file, then save the file? If so, this rocks even more.

On 06/06/03 at 04:18:36, DarkAndEvilBastard wrote:Silly little thing...

How about wrestlers trying to walk out getting caught by the opponent and thrown back in the ring?

Any news on the falls count anywhere thing I mentioned a while back? I still haven't gotten a booked falls count anywhere finish to happen anywhere but the ring, and it sucks if you book it to end in, say, 5 minutes but they wind up in the second floor at the 5 minute mark, so they match goes twelve more minutes as they fight up and down the arena, FINALLY making it into the ring for the finish.

On 06/06/03 at 05:31:10, leftsaidfred wrote:Oliver, I just wanted to post a couple of ideas that you may or may not want to consider. I also apologize if they've already been posted.

1) How about having injuries possibly ending matches? Instead of just having "Wrestler X will be out for Y weeks due to an injured body part Z" at the end of a match, could you possibly have it worked into a match so that it says something along the lines of:
"The Rock is on the ground, holding onto his (knee/elbow/whatever) and writhing in pain.
Earl Hebner checks on The Rock and asks if he can continue.
The Rock shakes his head.
Earl Hebner calls for the bell."
I just thought I'd toss that out.

2) Would it be possible for interference to be kind of split into 'categories.' i.e. you can specify whether your interferer is going to try and help someone win a match illegally, or if the interferer is just looking to smack someone around.

The last two are slightly more specific and much more cosmetic suggestions:

3) I noticed that when you have a wrestler interfere that uses a submission move as his finisher, it sometimes says that he "hits" the person he's interfering with that move. Could you change it so that it says he "puts" the other person in the hold, and it's possible for the ref to turn around while the hold is still applied? Very minor, but it could change how some matches end.

4) Finally, could you make it possible for certain wrestlers to do kind of like what Rick Steamboat did and pull themselves back in the ring when their opponent attempted to toss them over the top rope? I just thought that would be a nice 'flavor' option to have.

On a side note, I really enjoyed the match sample you posted. It looks very promising.

Thanks, and best of luck with the upcoming release.

On 06/06/03 at 15:02:47, peter wrote:Nice one Oliver- it sounding better by the minute (or day)

This was an idea brought up a while back but think its a really good one.

Would it be possible to add an option so that when you view a match you dont have to keep pressing a key to get to the next page. It would be nice if you had the option to kick back and watch your card run...

On 06/06/03 at 04:18:36, DarkAndEvilBastard wrote:Silly little thing...

How about wrestlers trying to walk out getting caught by the opponent and thrown back in the ring?

Tommy

On 06/06/03 at 18:35:58, j5eR wrote:Ollie.

I'm seconding the interference added to the end of the match results. eg. interference by so and so. I think it'd be much more easily kept track of that way.

j5eR

On 06/06/03 at 21:37:59, Oliver Copp wrote:The problem is that the compiler is overflowing because of the 2,500 variables, arrays and structs used in the program *g* and because of code nearing 100,000 lines of code in the match processor alone ;-)

On 06/06/03 at 21:32:50, leftsaidfred wrote:Oliver -

I agree with you on #1. Obviously only certain injuries would be capable of ending matches in the way that I mentioned. Just a couple more ideas on this issue - could a wrestler's stamina come into play here? i.e., the lower one's stamina is, the more likely injuries are to stop a match. Also, would having an injury occur and then having the non-injured wrestler end the match quickly (like when Sid Vicious' leg was torn up towards the end of the four-way match at WCW's Sin in early 2001) with a pinfall?

On 06/06/03 at 23:59:40, Critic_of_the_Dawn wrote:Any chance that they'd be able to refer you to a program that is? <Hopes>

Eric "Critic of the Dawn"

On 06/07/03 at 02:11:15, peter wrote:Sorry to hear about thew compiler...i guess reducinmg is the only option

As for the match text not stopping on each screen either way you suggested (a keyboard switch or circuit level) would be fine if possible.

Good luck sorting out your monster of a program code!

On 06/07/03 at 06:03:42, StoneC0ld wrote:Regarding the compiler issue.....

Any possibility of splitting it up into 2 seperate executables? (Or projects, however you want to define it)

eg. You have the main program and circuit/match processor in one, and the main program might shell out to the second program for the control center. (or other arrangement that spreads the code out more evenly... :))

Otherwise, I hope you don't have to remove too many features to finish TNM7SE.... :)

On 06/07/03 at 01:44:44, FS984 wrote:I don't know if it's possible now with the limitations on the match engine, and it was mentioned in another post, but I'd like to see a Lumberjack Match option, where the user chooses a number of lumberjacks and then selects them from the list of wrestlers. I've been wanting something like that for a while but I don't know how hard it would be to implement.

On 06/07/03 at 04:25:20, oldschool79 wrote:Oliver,

I am a long time registered user of TNM7 and am "jacked" to see that there is more in store for this fantastic creation.

One thing that I had always wanted to see randomly done or booked was a beatdown after or during a match to cause a DQ (example: Flair and Michaels are wrestling and you would have HHH and Orton interfere; Flair gets DQ and the 3 beatdown on Michaels). This would logically lead to another phase for a booked or random save that would either clear the ring or just continue the free for all until a programmed or booked conclusion. That would really help with some of the story telling that I like to try and execute during the cards in my circuits. For example, in the above example, Kevin Nash if booked to blow in and make the save. This could lead to some action between the five wrestlers, the wrestlers who were doing the "attack" could flee, or the wrestler(s) doing the "beatdown" could also jump the wrestler coming in to make the save and would end the match with the wrestler(s) they attacked laying in the ring or fleeing, etc.

I hate to ask you to tip your hand; but, please tell me that this is one of the 30 new features!

Thanks, for your time and let me know if you can.

Thanks again for keeping the game alive.

On 06/07/03 at 05:53:04, StoneC0ld wrote:

I'll second (or third, or fourth....) this motion..... With a twist... :)

You take the wrestler's stamina, charisma, work rate, and a number representing the injury severity, and come up with a math formula that would result in a final number. (Let's say the formula is designed to result in a number between 1 and 100, for example). Injury Severity might have a greater weight in the formula to affect the result greater.. (Or, just run the stamina/charisma/workrate through a formula and compare the result with the number representing the severity of the injury) Would probably want a random number involved, just to add a random influence. :)

Now that we have this information, I see 5 possible things happening, depending on how the results are spread out....

1: The pain is too great, the wrestler is unable to tolerate it. The wrestler collapses, the refs checks on him and calls for the bell and the EMTs.

2: The injured wrestler can continue the match to an early conclusion. However, the wrestler cannot hide the pain, so an injury is obvious. They wrap up the match within 1-2 minutes and the injured wrestler is taken to the back on a stretcher or otherwise helped out. Booked spots for the match from the time of the injury onward are discarded.

3: The injured wrestler can continue the match to an early conclusion, same as #2. However, the injured wrestler is successfully able to hide the injury and the pain, so nobody knows it happened. Match ends within 1-2 or 1-3 minutes, discarding any booked spots unless the spot finishes the match within the same 1-3 minutes as the early finish. (ie. if the injury happened at 12:34, the early finish was expected at 14:01, and a booked pinfall at 13:21, the booked finish does take place)

4: The injured wrestler can continue the match as originally booked. All booked spots take place as planned. An injury is not obvious, but should occasionally hint that something's wrong. (if Triple H fractures his right arm, he might occasionally hold his right arm between moves.)

5: The injured wrestler can continue the match as originally booked, and is able to totally hide it from everyone.

--------

Generally, #4 or 5 would be most likely to happen with average stamina/charisma/workrate variables, but it should always be *possible* (although very small chance) for any wrestler to end up following #1.

Sorry for the long explanation... :P

On 06/07/03 at 08:43:11, james_mercurial wrote:first of, i'd like to say that tnm7 se sounds absolutely great. thanks for giving the public what they want oliver.

i just wanted to sugest something, i don't know if its been requested before but how about the option to scroll up from the result of the match, without having to log the entire match? for example, sometimes i skip a match to the finish, and it will just show me

Danny Davis counts; one, two, three.
Billy Bitch-cakes has been eliminated.

so how about the option to scroll up and see just what bitch-cakes did to get pinned. so you could see something like this;

Terri Runnels hits Bill Bitch-cakes with a dragonrana.
Danny Davis counts; one, two, three.
Billy Bitch-cakes has been eliminated.

not much, but you get my idea. anyone second that?

On 06/07/03 at 10:32:25, Oliver Copp wrote:

Did you post this before elsewhere ? I could have sworn I've seen this exact text before.

Beatdowns are penciled onto the list but are the feature with the least priority of all because they don't influence the matches per se. Of course, they'd help to add more flesh to feuds et al. Any other opinions on this ?

On 06/07/03 at 09:59:38, Oliver Copp wrote:

I did license both PB/CC (for Win console apps) and PB/Win (for GUI code) a bit back but they are different enough in concept and design that a straight copy-and-paste port won't be possible. I'd estimate just converting the match engine would take upwards of 100 hours.

For the time being, I'll stick to PB/DOS with the code. That just means that I'll convert some parts of the code to straight assembler which should take care of the problem for now.

On 06/07/03 at 10:32:25, Oliver Copp wrote:

Did you post this before elsewhere ? I could have sworn I've seen this exact text before.

Beatdowns are penciled onto the list but are the feature with the least priority of all because they don't influence the matches per se. Of course, they'd help to add more flesh to feuds et al. Any other opinions on this ?

On 06/07/03 at 05:53:04, StoneC0ld wrote:

I'll second (or third, or fourth....) this motion..... With a twist... :)

You take the wrestler's stamina, charisma, work rate, and a number representing the injury severity, and come up with a math formula that would result in a final number. (Let's say the formula is designed to result in a number between 1 and 100, for example). Injury Severity might have a greater weight in the formula to affect the result greater.. (Or, just run the stamina/charisma/workrate through a formula and compare the result with the number representing the severity of the injury) Would probably want a random number involved, just to add a random influence. :)

Now that we have this information, I see 5 possible things happening, depending on how the results are spread out....

1: The pain is too great, the wrestler is unable to tolerate it. The wrestler collapses, the refs checks on him and calls for the bell and the EMTs.

2: The injured wrestler can continue the match to an early conclusion. However, the wrestler cannot hide the pain, so an injury is obvious. They wrap up the match within 1-2 minutes and the injured wrestler is taken to the back on a stretcher or otherwise helped out. Booked spots for the match from the time of the injury onward are discarded.

3: The injured wrestler can continue the match to an early conclusion, same as #2. However, the injured wrestler is successfully able to hide the injury and the pain, so nobody knows it happened. Match ends within 1-2 or 1-3 minutes, discarding any booked spots unless the spot finishes the match within the same 1-3 minutes as the early finish. (ie. if the injury happened at 12:34, the early finish was expected at 14:01, and a booked pinfall at 13:21, the booked finish does take place)

4: The injured wrestler can continue the match as originally booked. All booked spots take place as planned. An injury is not obvious, but should occasionally hint that something's wrong. (if Triple H fractures his right arm, he might occasionally hold his right arm between moves.)

5: The injured wrestler can continue the match as originally booked, and is able to totally hide it from everyone.

--------

Generally, #4 or 5 would be most likely to happen with average stamina/charisma/workrate variables, but it should always be *possible* (although very small chance) for any wrestler to end up following #1.

Sorry for the long explanation... :P

On 06/08/03 at 00:05:56, kic wrote:

I really think this could be put to good use. I would have used it several times by now, but I just may be a little beatdown crazy. ;)

On 06/07/03 at 05:53:04, StoneC0ld wrote:

You take the wrestler's stamina, charisma, work rate, and a number representing the injury severity, and come up with a math formula that would result in a final number. (Let's say the formula is designed to result in a number between 1 and 100, for example). Injury Severity might have a greater weight in the formula to affect the result greater.. (Or, just run the stamina/charisma/workrate through a formula and compare the result with the number representing the severity of the injury) Would probably want a random number involved, just to add a random influence. :)

On 06/07/03 at 19:02:45, Critic_of_the_Dawn wrote:

Ugh. I can see why the thought doesn't appeal to you. After just getting the old itch back, so to speak, running through hundreds of thousands of lines of code over the span of a hundred hours or so would tend to dampen one's enthusiasm.

On 06/08/03 at 05:30:25, leftsaidfred wrote:

Sounds like a good improvement on the idea, though I do have to ask - with the formula, how relevant would charisma be? To my understanding, which may be flawed, that primarily deals with the crowd's ability to get into a wrestler's 'character,' though I can see where one would say it'd have a slight effect on the injury and its relation to the match concerning how well one could hide it.

On 06/08/03 at 05:30:25, leftsaidfred wrote:

Sounds like a good improvement on the idea, though I do have to ask - with the formula, how relevant would charisma be? To my understanding, which may be flawed, that primarily deals with the crowd's ability to get into a wrestler's 'character,' though I can see where one would say it'd have a slight effect on the injury and its relation to the match concerning how well one could hide it.

On 06/08/03 at 20:46:59, StoneC0ld wrote:Another little idea..... ;D (I know, I keep thinking of these things... lol)

I like the ability to book a specific kind of finish (pinfall, submission, etc) at a certain time without specifying exactly which wrestler and exactly which move. Very useful when I'm booking dark matches and broadcast matches where I don't exactly care what happens because it's not important to any storylines.

But, would it be possible to be able to book any finish at all at a certain time? For example, if I don't care if it's a pinfall, a countout, a submission, a DQ, or whatever, just as long as the match is over at approximately 8:34..

On 06/08/03 at 21:28:11, whyme wrote:could you add back in the differnt set of moves like us standard, brawler, high flyer, etc... that was in the first tnm?

i liked having a chance to just pick a set of moves when making a person instead of having to go through ALL of them to find what i wanted.

On 06/08/03 at 15:03:34, Kidman wrote:But just playing around a bit with TNM some little ideas came to my mind:

- Title unification matches
So you put up two titles in a unification match and you decide what title stays and (maybe) the other one will be disabled until you enable it again.

-weight limit for titles
If you got a light-heavyweight or crusiserweight title in your circuit and you don't want any big guy going for it. But a problem I see would be "winners of" matches, that could go for such a title. TNM would need something like a dependency on that and I doubt it does exist.

On 06/09/03 at 01:51:38, JoeDesertrat wrote:I'd like to see a change in the booking feature in which preselecting the winner of the match is optional. I'd like to be able to book actions, interference, etc while still leaving the final outcome of the match up to the game.

On 06/08/03 at 10:32:24, Oliver Copp wrote:

Things that definitely would have to influence the decision which route to take:
...
5) whether the match is important or not (how a match is deemed "important" being a matter of discussion),
...
7) ???

On 06/08/03 at 11:27:25, Oliver Copp wrote:Not to overlook one thing: if we go for injuries in the way that was described before, it could lead to awkward situations.

Why ?

Imagine the program decides for Kevin Nash to break his shinbone. Since there is no way of it knowing, which moves can lead to such injury, you might end up with the final move of the match being a chop...

On 06/09/03 at 04:26:49, ISportsFan wrote:Possibly an option for gauntlet matches that aren't just 3 back-to-back matches (i.e. so there aren't 3 separate entrances for the same person when he's already in the ring)... maybe list the match results in a similar way to eliminations in battle royales and elimination matches.

Also, I don't know what you're working on with regard to DQs and Double DQs involving the booking feature, but I think it might be helpful to have the possibility to book a DQ not involving interference (such as booking a weapon shot or something like the Guerreros are doing currently (weapon shot, give weapon to other team, ref wakes up, plus some other cheapo things)).

Thanks.

Jason

On 06/08/03 at 21:55:08, Kidman wrote:

- In the match editor, when chosing the wrestlers. In the Champion screen it would be nice, if I could press "1" and the guy, who is holding title 1 will be put in the match. It would make it more handy.


- In the match scheduler you still got your "debug" stuff activated... ([v] and[o])

On 06/09/03 at 05:08:45, ISportsFan wrote:Another thing I just came across while playing TNM7...

Especially with the new addition of heel and face refs in Second Edition, would it be possible to assign certain refs to certain matches? For instance, you don't want the heel ref in the promotion reffing more than one match (which would be the match where his shenanigans are required).

In the case I'm talking about while I'm playing, I want a certain ref to take a certain match in my fed, but the guest ref function doesn't eliminate him from reffing two other matches on the card - and it's weird, because Danny Davis would have never reffed two matches on one card during his heel run.

Jason

On 06/09/03 at 09:20:52, Snabbit888 wrote:Okay... I read through all of these posts (man, you go away for a few days and hell, you miss a lot). The list of stuff done and to be done is looking magnificent.

I had a thought about the rating of interviews thing. Now, to use the wrestlers' charismas and such to determine how "good" or "bad" an interview sounds feasible enough. But what happens if you have a character who wouldn't be in the database? For instance, I often use myself, Ryan Niemiller, as a president or commish for a circuit. If I use myself in an interview, will it be able to tell or even care for that matter?

Secondly, perhaps a suggestion if you go with this to fix the problem of having to type recognized nicknames into the interview. What if as part of the Interview Integrator program, before it lets you type in the actual interview, it brings up a list of your roster and you get to flag who is a part of the interview. Not sure how that would work with the actual code, but in theory, this would be able to let you type a "natural" interview and still have the program recognize who's there.

On 06/09/03 at 02:54:51, TiLoBrown wrote:Hey Oliver, is Tag Team Turmoil included in the tag team battle royal/elimination matches thing?

On 06/09/03 at 11:10:20, nogimmick2 wrote:I'll throw in a couple of suggestions here...

I prefer not to book finishes to matches to keep the sim aspect of the game pure. However, this can also lead to main events or title matches that go 5 or 10 minutes, even though my match time is set at 7 or 8. If it would be feasible, I would like an option to set a match to go at least "x" number of minutes. Thus, you could set your main event to go at least 20 minutes; it may then end at 21 minutes or 45, but not before 20.

The other thing that I would like is the ability for tag team partners to turn on each other during a match. I just had a situation come up where this would have really helped, but I had to do it in a post-match beatdown instead. If this could be put in with either the turn causing his partner to lose or the match going to a no contest, it would be spectacular.

Thanks.

On 06/09/03 at 11:10:20, nogimmick2 wrote:I'll throw in a couple of suggestions here...

I prefer not to book finishes to matches to keep the sim aspect of the game pure. However, this can also lead to main events or title matches that go 5 or 10 minutes, even though my match time is set at 7 or 8. If it would be feasible, I would like an option to set a match to go at least "x" number of minutes. Thus, you could set your main event to go at least 20 minutes; it may then end at 21 minutes or 45, but not before 20.

On 06/09/03 at 14:45:55, Fighter_Hayabusa wrote:I'm not sure if this has been suggested yet, or if it's doable, or if it's just plain too late. Is it possible to have a wrestler's damage or stamina stay a bit lower if he's wrestled once already on the same card? I mean, gaultlet matches have been discussed here, but they'd make no sense if the guy in the first match is 100% at the start of his 3rd bout. And maybe it could be set so that the wrestler's stamina would be a factor of how may matches have occurred between his first match and his second, third, etc. For example, a guy who wrestles two matches in a row would have lower stamina/higher damage than a guy who wrestles a match, then sits out while two other matches happen before having his next match. It would make tournaments, gauntlets, etc much more realistic.

Can this be done?

FH

On 06/09/03 at 16:24:10, Oliver Copp wrote:

Ummm... not to burn a bridge here buuuut... this has been in the program ever since Build 4 :-). 100% doesn't mean the wrestler has his full potential energy. It just means that he hasn't lost any energy so far in the match :-)

On 06/09/03 at 16:24:10, Oliver Copp wrote:

Ummm... not to burn a bridge here buuuut... this has been in the program ever since Build 4 :-). 100% doesn't mean the wrestler has his full potential energy. It just means that he hasn't lost any energy so far in the match :-)

On 06/09/03 at 11:57:32, Oliver Copp wrote:

Wouldn't that simply be a series of matches with the winners moving on ? Or am I missing something ?

On 06/09/03 at 12:21:32, james_mercurial wrote:i don't know if this has been covered already, but will tnm7 se have tag team tornado matches, and triangle and 4 way matches where they are all in the ring at the same time like for a triple threat ladder match type thing?

also, i know that this is the wrong forum but in tnm7, what does the talent limitations/talent pool do?

On 06/09/03 at 12:24:27, ManUnderMask wrote:This is my first post here, but not my first time here. In fact I'm a huge and long time TNM user. At one point myself and my girlfriend at the time had over 300 fantasy wrestlers. Those were lost in a crash and I'm trying to recreate them, but unfortunetly I don't remember them all, so a lot of the wrestlers are completely new.

When I saw that coming soon TNM SE on the website my heart fluttered and I almost fell to my knees praising whatever deity would listen.

I've been using TNM for a long time and I have only one suggestion and it plagues me periodically when I play:

When I play I don't run circuits or feuds, I just make titles and then defend them all the time. I run six man tag tournaments which lead into a battle royal for the number 1 contender, and I hate it when I have an injury in the winning tournament team and because of that injury my 15 man battle royal has only 14 men so the battle royal doesn't win and the first man on the list wins.

I also have had that happen in tag team tournaments where the winning team suffers an injury so the resulting tag title match doesn't happen.

Would it be possible to still allow for those injuries, but when the battle royal or whatever team type matches happen, we get the option to choose a replacement, ala the "No Show, Pick a Replacement" screen we get when a wrestler no shows?

On 06/09/03 at 19:05:53, Colin wrote:Actually, I think Tag Team Turmoil matches had random parings... For example, you had 6 teams and 2 started off with a new team coming in after a team was pinned. Maybe that's what he wants...

Of course there's no reason you can't just draw positions and do 5 separate matches though. :)

On 06/09/03 at 11:54:54, Oliver Copp wrote:


Also, if you select Triple H and Ric Flair for the interview, the interview can either consist of 80 percent Flair and 20 percent Hunter, in which case it has a chance of being decent. Or it could be Hunter 80, Flair 20 in which case it would likely be lacking. That, however, is something that you know, I know and probably every wrestling fan out there knows... yet, programs don't have "gut feelings".

Technically, Hunter is a good interview. He has the presence, he can talk and he has great facials. Thing is, he appears to have gotten stale which is a gut feeling but not something you can put down on paper.

Any opinions ? Maybe I'm being too perfectionist again but I don't want to put something in the program that I know full-well will be lacking unless that is specifically what is wanted.

On 06/09/03 at 17:03:47, UWFWhyteTyger wrote:Oliver

Since you are working on the face/heel ref part, will it be possible to book spots with the ref ? I just thought about booking Wrestler X to knock out the ref and then booking interference afterwards. Will this be possible with the release of SE ?

On 06/09/03 at 17:20:51, Tom_Imp wrote:
Anyway, is TNM SE going to be run through DOS or is it being ported to Windows?

On 06/09/03 at 18:31:47, Critic_of_the_Dawn wrote:
Sweet! I did not know that. I was all set to second the idea as one of the best I've seen so far.

Given the way it's presented, I'm not really surprised that this feature goes unnoticed and thus unknown. Would it be possible to indicate that this is the case visually somehow? Either through starting the wrestler at a lower percentage (With the original value from the first match being 100% rather than the new value) or a little window that pops up when you select a wrester that's already been in a match saying something like "Kane (or whoever) is already booked for a match this card. Therefore, he will not fight at full strength in this bout. Proceed anyway?"

Eric "Critic of the Dawn"

On 06/08/03 at 21:28:11, whyme wrote:could you add back in the differnt set of moves like us standard, brawler, high flyer, etc... that was in the first tnm?

i liked having a chance to just pick a set of moves when making a person instead of having to go through ALL of them to find what i wanted.

On 06/09/03 at 21:37:32, whyme wrote:
ahh man no love from oliver!! lol. anyways any chance of this above to happen?

On 06/09/03 at 21:53:27, MAT wrote:I saw that "Special move: "leads to finisher" and "illegal" checkboxes work properly in all cases." and was wondering if it were possible to have that as well in the outside the ring checkbox in the wrestlers Finisher section, as it doesnt always seem to work and wrestlers still hit their finishers outside.

On 06/09/03 at 22:07:56, ggazoo wrote:I have a small suggestion/question.

When we get an injury occuarance, it now reads:

"Chris Jericho suffered an elbow injury. He will be out for approximately 5 cards"

For TNM7:SE, how about:

"Chris Jericho suffered an elbow injury. He will be out for approximately 2 months"

If the hiring process will still be based on number of cards, could TNM compute the time in months /weeks for injuries?

On 06/09/03 at 19:10:02, Oliver Copp wrote:

Welcome to the forums :-)

I think you'll be happy to hear that I've been working on this part of the program a lot.

Two things which have changed:

a) if there's a draw in a match whose winners should go into a Battle Royal, the Battle Royal will still take place, albeit minus the people from the match that was a draw and
b) if somebody is injured in a match, the other winners can advance into a Battle Royal.

I think that should cover what you wanted *g*. Now I'm only left with one problem: I'll have to make sure regular matches still work if one party can't advance due to an injury...

On 06/09/03 at 23:39:13, ISportsFan wrote:Another thing about the special move...

Would it be possible to change the wording of the post-card summary of the matches from something like this (especially if the special move is used as the finishing move) from...

Rey Misterio Jr. pinned Chavo Guerrero Jr. after using his special move at 12:34.

to...

Rey Misterio Jr. pinned Chavo Guerrero Jr. after hitting the Ruffryder at 12:34.

Now, the wording isn't perfect (I know) of the summaries that I listed above, but I think you get the idea. This is just a suggestion.

Thank you.

Jason

On 06/09/03 at 23:46:07, ManUnderMask wrote:
Is the FCA Cubed plugin still going to be able to run with the new TNM?

On 06/10/03 at 00:06:41, Oliver Copp wrote:

Unfortunately that won't be possible because you can enter whatever you want into the special move field. How should the computer pick it apart, change the grammar and tense and put it back together again for the summary :-) ?

Basically, you could put "eats an apple" in there as well as "takes a step back, relaxes and shoots a fieldgoal with his head".

In the first case, TNM would have to know to change "eats an apple" to "after eating an apple". The second example would be a bit more complicated because I'd need to write a parser for the English language ;-)

On 06/08/03 at 15:37:18, el_dirko wrote:I would like to see more attention being paid to the wrestler's weights and the effects thereof.
While it is possible to modify moves in the database, the transition moves like hits, kicks, irish whips, etc. can be done by anyone to anyone. How about leaving the weight just as a text field and have a strength field, which determines impact of moves?

Another neat thing would be the possibility to change the time a move takes to be executed. I love watching a match with a high workrate, but in TNM you have dozens or hundreds of moves in a 20 minute match. Slowing down the moves would make the matches much more realistic.

On 06/10/03 at 01:13:36, MAT wrote:An example of what I mean is in my last match I had Super Crazy hit the Trifecta (a moonsault) on Tiger Mask IV on the concrete floor even though I didnt have 'Outside The Ring' checked in Super Crazy's Finisher section.

On 06/10/03 at 01:19:59, FS984 wrote:Don't know if I missed it when looking over these 16 pages worth of posts, but Oliver did you ever comment on the title unification idea? I was just wondering because I don't remember seeing a response.

On 06/10/03 at 03:53:41, ISportsFan wrote:

Thanks anyway, I appreciate the time you put into this game and the website.

On 06/10/03 at 04:47:49, Snabbit888 wrote:Hrm... a couple of points about masks were brought to my attention, and I didn't remember hearing about these here, so here goes:

#1 Will mask vs. title/hair/anything be possible?

#2, are the mask spots going to be a factor in every single match? I mean, just because you're wearing a mask doesn't mean it's going to be pulled at every single match you wrestle. That could get a little tedious.

On 06/10/03 at 06:26:12, The_Whole_Fn_Show wrote:1) Having the option to enforce genders in mixed tag matches, in the sense that men can only fight men and women can only fight women. So, if two guys are in the ring and one tags out to his female partner, the other must tag in his female partner. I personally despise mixed tags (WWE does an awful job with them), but some may like them.

2) The ability to put someone through the announce table, or perhaps have a choice of the main announce table or the Spanish announce table (if it were a WWE style PPV).

3) A Hardcore Free-For-All match with a set time limit. They had this match a few years ago at WrestleMania, and although that particular match was pretty much just filler, it could be good under the right circumstances.

4) Among the referee interactions, having a heel pull the ref in the way of a running attack.

5) Having the choice of if a particular wrestler springs back to his feet (i.e. The Rock), much in the way that you can choose if they sit up (like Kane or Undertaker used to).

As far as previously covered ideas, I liked the idea of ratings for interviews. And although personal feelings on interviews are rather subjective, so are opinions on match quality, to an extent. It would be great if something could be set up to where interviews were rated based on charisma, push, heat between the interviewed individual and their target, etc. Although that would bring up other factors, such as that some interviews are just people hyping themselves up, with no other target. Anyway, if it can't be done, it might be nice to be able to assign a rating ourselves which would be taken into account for the overall quality of the event. I think most people would agree that The Rock or Chris Jericho (whether you like them or not) would give a good interview, while others, like Big Show, would probably not be as entertaining. Just a thought.

Someone had mentioned earlier about retaining information on an individual's title reigns. That would be great if all titles could be compiled together, including tag or six man titles. But, if doing something like that would prove to be more trouble then it's worth, such as the "one half of the tag team champions" post about ring intros brought up, then it wouldn't be worth it. I myself have used Word to keep records of individuals and how many times they've held any given title. So, it would be a nice feature, but not crucial.

On 06/10/03 at 09:30:43, Oliver Copp wrote:

So what you're getting at is basically to have a strength field for every wrestler which in combination with his own weight and that of his opponent will determine what - if any - transition moves can be done ?

On 06/10/03 at 09:30:43, Oliver Copp wrote:
I see the point here. What I can offer you is the following: there will be two value fields you can change with TweakCirc. One will be called "time progression" which accelerates/decelerates the progression of time. The other will be called "energy consumption" (or whatever dorky title I come up with *g*) which will define how quickly energy is consumed when taking hits. Used together, these features should allow you to adjust TNM's engine to your liking.

On 06/09/03 at 17:20:51, Tom_Imp wrote:

Wow, you learn something new every day. I never knew that about TNM. I always thought that 100% meant 100%. Cool feature Oliver. :)

On 06/10/03 at 15:36:55, Gohan wrote:And uh, what is "skinning the cat"?

On 06/10/03 at 14:21:59, Oliver Copp wrote:Progress report as of June 10, 2003 02:22 pm CET:

T 51) Time progression: configurable

T 52) Overruling whether or not finisher can be done outside of ring in FCA matches

On 06/10/03 at 15:28:10, ggazoo wrote:I'm sure this is way too late, and it might have been mentioned before, but...

Would it be possible to still have titles on the line if someone no-shows? For example, if Los Guerreros were to challenge Team Angle, then Chavo no-shows, one could book Tajiri as the replacement. But then, if Eddie and Taijir win the match, they won't win the belts. :(

Can last minute replacements also wrestle for the titles?

On 06/10/03 at 15:36:55, Gohan wrote:But on the issue of Masks...

Will it be handled as Luchadore (Ex. Rey Mysterio) masks or any kind (IE--Kane's mask) of masks?

And uh, what is "skinning the cat"?

Thanx for the hard work, Oliver. We all appreciate it. :D

On 06/10/03 at 17:28:53, John Proulx wrote:Could you clarify a couple of these for me?

Does this mean, if we have a large setting for time progression, that matches will have fewer moves, or that matches will have the same number of moves but a longer duration?

Even in FCA matches, there are still some moves that can only be done in the ring (or perhaps only in certain parts of the arena), e.g. top-rope, springboard and slingshot aided moves. Perhaps these need a new indicator?

On 06/10/03 at 19:49:34, UWFWhyteTyger wrote:This is basicaly cosmetic and not that big of a deal, but it is something I would like to see done if it is a quick fix.
When a tag team is being introduced, AND they are part of a stable, they could be introduced as both.

example : Ron and Don Harris form the tag team, The Harris Twins. They are also part of SEX. So when introduced, it is done so as : Representing SEX, the Harris Twins, Ron Harris and Don Harris.

So how about it, Oliver, quick fix or no can do ?

On 06/10/03 at 20:28:27, MookSmash wrote:Hey Oliver, I posted awhile ago about trying to find my TNM registration info and setting up my circuit on your page.

I think you have my email marked as "loony" or something because you told me to email you but I haven't heard back yet. Do you want me to wait to email you until you go into Beta-testing?

As for TNM7 -2nd edition, I have a few questions. You set it up for three and four way gimmick matches. Now...

....will you have any new gimmick matches included?

.....will this mean all 3 or 4 men in ring at the same time?

.....could that also include 3 tag teams (ala TLC matches)?

On 06/10/03 at 22:33:47, Jack wrote:

Another idea, would it be possible to set limits to the mystery wrestler or random wrestler features, eg weight, gender,...

On 06/10/03 at 10:14:24, Oliver Copp wrote:

So in a nutshell you would like TNM to force a tag on one side if the other side tagged ?

Could you please go into details what this kind of match brings to the table in terms of procedure :-) ?

The difference between match ratings and interview ratings is that in matches, there are certain measurable things which help indicate whether it was a good or a bad match. In interviews, all you have to go on is the people in the interview, and even The Rock has had a few really bad and boring ones. I seem to be alone here but I still don't think it's better to come up with a generic (and likely inaccurate) rating for an interview than not to rate interviews at all.

In theory, it sounds easy enough. Take all singles title reigns and check which tag team title reigns the wrestler was party to. There is one caveat, though: if you have a tag team called the Dust Collectors consisting of Duke Droese and Dusty Rhodes and they win the tag titles, then later lose them and split up, then you bring back the Dust Collectors as Duke and Dustin Rhodes, Dustin will be attributed the title reign that Dusty had.

On 06/10/03 at 20:06:27, Oliver Copp wrote:
Maybe I need to explain this in more detail. In every wrestler record, you can indicate if their finisher can be done outside of the ring. This flag is overridden by TNM 7 First Edition in case you're having a Falls-Count-Anywhere Match. This behaviour can be turned off in TNM 7 SE.

On 06/10/03 at 10:14:24, Oliver Copp wrote:

So in a nutshell you would like TNM to force a tag on one side if the other side tagged ?

On 06/11/03 at 01:03:27, Azn Persuazn wrote:

3. I know this probably is unlikely, but possible booking of tag team turns? Countless times have I wanted to have something like this. It happened a few weeks ago on RAW (Michaels/Flair v. HHH). It would be great to set up feuds.

On 06/11/03 at 01:03:27, Azn Persuazn wrote:

6. Someone said something about making the cards become months, then you brought the issue of how different people have cards mean different amounts of time. This may be too advanced, but an idea I had was to have an option of "X number of cards = [X number of days]/[X number of weeks]/[X number of months], etc". That way you could have a circut where 5 cards might equal one month, whereas in another fed, you might have 10 cards equal one month, or 3 cards equal one week. I'm sure you can tweak that, you hopefully you get the idea.

So essentially the idea I've had of mask vs mask matches was wrong. The mask vs mask matches I've seen were contested in a way that the loser would have to unmask... not that mask pulling was legal.

On 06/10/03 at 19:35:04, Oliver Copp wrote:

You're welcome. Skinning the cat is holding on to the top rope when going over and pulling oneself back in.

It's your call how it is handled. While it is intended for the luchadores of this world, you might just as well try to unmask Kane...

I just need to wrap it up soon so we can go into beta. After all, SE was *supposed* to be a small update with maybe 15 new features. We're at triple that already *g*

On 06/12/03 at 19:18:09, Oliver Copp wrote:I don't agree with the idea of switching identities being a good feature. It was taken out of TNM between versions 6.2 and 7 on purpose because changing between personas is a lot more than just changing the name, which is what TNM did. If you *really* wanted to switch characters, you'd have to end up using different wrestlers anyway... Cactus and Manking are good examples BTW. Two totally different wrestlers and wrestling styles... finishers... everything ;-)

On 06/13/03 at 03:44:59, DarkAndEvilBastard wrote:

For circuit purposes, though, Mick Foley and Cactus Jack were one and the same...that is, when Foley morphed back into Cactus Jack, he wasn't unranked, he was still the #1 contender.

This was something I posted about when these forums first came up...the ability to change a wrestler's name without losing their record. The example used at the time was I had Booker T in my WCW fed as "Boooker"...well, I couldn't change him back to "Booker T" without losing his win-loss record...still the same guy, minor cosmetic change, though.

Tommy

On 06/13/03 at 03:44:59, DarkAndEvilBastard wrote:

For circuit purposes, though, Mick Foley and Cactus Jack were one and the same...that is, when Foley morphed back into Cactus Jack, he wasn't unranked, he was still the #1 contender.

This was something I posted about when these forums first came up...the ability to change a wrestler's name without losing their record. The example used at the time was I had Booker T in my WCW fed as "Boooker"...well, I couldn't change him back to "Booker T" without losing his win-loss record...still the same guy, minor cosmetic change, though.

On 06/13/03 at 04:51:53, FS984 wrote:Hey Oliver, what's the projected release date for a beta the public will be able to use? I know it's not a perfect science, but a ball-park estimate would be nice. Thanks.

On 06/13/03 at 08:46:36, Oliver Copp wrote:

That is something you can do now with TNM 7 SE. And I absolutely do see your point.

It's just that Cactus Jack and Mankind don't even share the same finisher... even though Cactus did the Mandible Claw a few times in the WWF, he did go with the Double-Arm DDT most of the time.

Also, take Eddy Guerrero and Black Tiger - two personas for the same wrestler, totally different styles. This one exemplifies the problem best. Imaging you had Tiger - a masked wrestler - in your database. You decide to go with his alter ego Eddy Guerrero.

Guess what happens ? People will try to unmask Eddy because aside from the name, no attributes are touched.

All I can come up with to address the entire issue is maybe create some kind of a repository which holds all identities of the wrestlers with the characteristics and styles they used to have. Still, the wrestler would have to be replaced at database level, not at circuit level.

My suggestion would be to wait for TNM 7 SE and then have Mankind and Cactus in your database. Provided you have TweakCirc, going back and forth should be a piece of cake. Change the name, edit the contract and that's it :-)

On 06/14/03 at 11:07:45, CGold wrote:With the new card multiplier feature say i have it set to 1 card equals 3 cards does that mean when a guy doesn't resign I would get to use him for three more cards? or will it still be once he doesn't resign it's one and done?

On 05/30/03 at 18:41:27, Oliver Copp wrote:I'll make it short and sweet.

TNM 7. Second Edition.

More than 25 new features.

Interested in getting your hands on it ? Then check back here regularly. I'll release new information as soon as it's available.

Finished so far:

3) Illegal non-submission moves.
11) Card multipliers which tell TNM 7 to only deduct a card from a hired wrestler's contract every X cards.
13) Print roster to file.
14) Backing out of the hiring process will be possible.
15) Limits on the number of titles and circuits will be eliminated.
19) Overall rating for a card will be computed.
20) Option to turn off injuries.
23) Special move: "leads to finisher" and "illegal" checkboxes work properly in all cases.

Currently in the works:

1) New situations for DQs, double DQs.
4) Expanded referee interaction with the combatants.
7) Several new spots inside the matches.
8) More flexible wording and commentary.
24) Spots for masked wrestlers.

"What are the numbers not listed ?" I hear you ask. Check back here to find out - development is going on constantly.

More soon.

On 06/12/03 at 20:35:12, jonahrosch wrote:Hi there Oliver....

I know I'm a little late to the dance in terms of new features, but simply wanted to bring stuff to your attention. If they can go in to Special Edition, great, if not... well is fine enuff....

suggestions:

Tag Team Moves... Wouldn't it make sense to have five double-team moves that are specific to each tag team? Currently, you can only have a tag team finisher, and not a standard move that doesn't finish a match.

Also, having a double-team finishing maneuver that was a submission hold (e.g., Angle & Benoit's Crossface/Anklelock). Currently, regardless of the combo, the opponent is pinned by a maneuver.

I enjoy reading the matches, not watching them unfold in the game. (I open the MATCHES.LOG file and paste the info into a word document). And new options for generating text output for the matches.

I know you've been working on referees, but how about options for special guest referee, where you want the referee to be a wrestler. Could the referee then act in favor of one or the other of the opponents based on being a face or a heel?

On 06/13/03 at 09:08:15, Dameyon_Moore wrote:Just one suggestion. A really small one.

Y'know how when you're booking who's going to be in what match and you hit the " - " key and you get the stats of the wrestler? Name, height, weight, styles, all that?

I'd like to have that option on the hire/fire screen, too. I lose track of what some of the Japanese wrestlers heights and weights are, and when you've got heavyweight and light heavyweight titles, it gets to be a problem. Not only that, some of the Joshi wrestlers have names that aren't too different from the male Puro stars.

Everything else has been covered, I think, by everyone else. And I just got me a job, too--finally--so now I ain't so worried about price issues.

On 06/14/03 at 11:07:45, CGold wrote:With the new card multiplier feature say i have it set to 1 card equals 3 cards does that mean when a guy doesn't resign I would get to use him for three more cards? or will it still be once he doesn't resign it's one and done?

On 06/16/03 at 20:09:12, Oliver Copp wrote:By the way, the reason why I've been so quiet lately is because TNM 7 SE went into beta. Preparations took up most of my time, and the beta phase has been a wild ride so far :-)

What I can definitely let you know already is that TNM 7 SE will require sensible use of your resources a lot more than FE did. Meaning that people with 1,500 wrestlers and 900 moves will have a hard time with it.

Six features flagged as interesting/important haven't been implemented yet. Work will go into these parallel to the beta testing phase.

Once the beta stabilizes, I will make it available for those who want to pre-order to get their hands on TNM 7 Second Edition ASAP (please forgive me for not replying to all your e-mails individually but 2,500 over three days is a bit much *g*).

Thanks !

On 06/17/03 at 04:45:51, leftsaidfred wrote:Regarding the wrestler limit... does the speed of one's computer affect that, or will it mess with everyone's TNM regardless of speed?

On 06/17/03 at 06:19:40, MookSmash wrote:LOL

my a**
=
I disagree


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

On 06/17/03 at 08:31:30, Oliver Copp wrote:

And I kept reading that sentence over and over, trying to make sense of it ;-)

How much conventional memory is available for programs on your machine ? You can find out by typing:

mem /c /p > c:\mem.txt (prior to Win2K/XP)

or

mem /c > c:\mem.txt (Win2K/XP)

Please post the contents of mem.txt and I'll probably be able to offer some tips on how to maximize your conventional memory, thus allowing for your TNM to work better.

BTW - as far as the match engine goes, moves are the real killer, not wrestlers. As far as the ControlCenter goes, it's both. Not being able to play themes indicates too little free conventional memory, though.

On 06/17/03 at 13:42:08, Oliver Copp wrote:I think you're going to be fine, Eric. I've been using the TNM you sent me for testing... with only 570k of free conventional memory (out of the box on Win2K). Worked fine, even for 50-man Battle Royals.

as far as the match engine goes, moves are the real killer, not wrestlers. As far as the ControlCenter goes, it's both.

I am God's knock-me-down clown.

This is just another cosmic 'kick-me' sign on my karmic back.

Peter Griffin is my hero.

On 06/18/03 at 13:48:48, peter wrote:

Oliver, congratulations for all your hard work. I hope TNM7 SE is as big a success as its predecessor was.

On 06/20/03 at 02:44:38, ggazoo wrote:Hey Oliver,

I was just reading your feature list off the main page, and after I finished drooling (it took awhile) I didn't recall seeing any mention to the effect of plugins being pre-installed.

Don't want to nag you about this, but it'll be the deciding factor for me as to whether or not I upgrade (ok, maybe not the DECIDING factor...lol)

On 06/20/03 at 02:44:38, ggazoo wrote:Hey Oliver,

I was just reading your feature list off the main page, and after I finished drooling (it took awhile) I didn't recall seeing any mention to the effect of plugins being pre-installed.

Don't want to nag you about this, but it'll be the deciding factor for me as to whether or not I upgrade (ok, maybe not the DECIDING factor...lol)

On 06/20/03 at 06:56:59, Tom_Imp wrote:To steal a line from Joey Styles, "Oh my God!" :o

I figured TNM7 SE would have some killer new features, but I couldn't believe what I saw when I read the full list of what's implemented. This is unbelievable Oliver!
Forget Operation Iraqi Freedom, this is some real shock and awe. ;D

As long as I'm on the computer this coming Monday, you better believe I'll be one of the first to order this baby. Man, I can't wait!

On 06/20/03 at 08:32:26, kic wrote:
I'm pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere in this thread that there'd be a "full-blown" version with every plugin Oliver has, and a version with just the base program. I imagine you'll still have to register plugins, but I may be wrong.

On 06/20/03 at 09:53:04, Oliver Copp wrote:

By the way, there's some serious work being done by several of the beta testers and myself on bringing TNM up-to-speed wrestler-wise for the release.

On 06/23/03 at 22:36:41, KoolKing wrote:Either that, or something which would let you set an approximate time for the whole card, and let the program decide how long the matches should be to fit that time frame.  But I don't really know how feasible that one would be.

On 06/23/03 at 22:41:19, Josh Haggard wrote:

This is a neat idea, though it might end up with goofy results: using my favorite example of sucktitude at the moment, you could put Test/Steiner on first and TNM might give that 20 minutes, while the Jericho/HHH main event could end up getting 3 or 4 if you're strapped for time.

On 06/23/03 at 23:45:24, HugeRockStar760 wrote:

Plus, you have to figure in all the interviews and segments that a show might have as well.

On 06/23/03 at 22:36:41, KoolKing wrote:I'd like to second Josh's suggestion of being able to book the length but not the finish of a match. Either that, or something which would let you set an approximate time for the whole card, and let the program decide how long the matches should be to fit that time frame. But I don't really know how feasible that one would be.

On 06/23/03 at 04:51:52, leftsaidfred wrote:1) More realistic contract issues; i.e., you could have TNM say a wrestler threaten to quit unless he gets a title shot soon, if his push doesn't increase, or that there's rumors that a star very unhappy with the situation. Also, maybe when you try to hire someone, they could state that they have to be hired for so long or else they won't accept, or alternately when you fire someone, other wrestlers could become angry and follow suit. It's kind of a rough idea, and might be difficult to incorporate, though.

2) Having a wrestler get tangled up in the ropes, like Andre the Giant in the second Survivor Series, so one's opponents can just beat the trapped wrestler senseless until he or she is freed.

3) Being able to book referee or mask interaction, like saying X shoves ref Y down at time Z, or X tries to take Y's mask off at time Z. (If this is included in the SE, sorry)

4) Instead of just having injuries, would it be possible to have wrestlers randomly ask for time off, be arrested, etc. causing them to miss cards? This may tie into #1 enough to the point where they'd be combined, and also the latter suggestion might not be desired by everyone.

On 06/23/03 at 17:46:28, mikey wrote:This is too late to be added into 2nd edition, but perhaps you can put it on your "wish list" of sorts, as I don't know how possible it would be.


I remember someone mentioning a while back that they wanted 3 and 4 way matches with all wrestlers in the ring at the same time, and you mentioning this wasn't possible due to the way TNM was coded.

Would it, however, be possible to add gimmicks such as cage/ladder/etc. to a battle royal if over-the-top eliminations are turned off?

I don't know it that's possible at all, but just throwing it out there.

On 06/23/03 at 21:49:54, Josh_Haggard wrote:Just wanted to throw this out there to the general public - I sent Oliver an e-mail about it yesterday, but I imagine he's inundated with bugfixes, generating codes and whatnot. :)

Hopefully this will make sense: I'd love
to be able to set a time for a match, but not the finish - kinda the opposite of a new feature in SE. If I'm running a TV show, I'd actually like to keep the total time of the show hovering around 2 hours. So, while I'd love to give Ultimo Dragon and Rey Misterio 35 minutes on a PPV, it would be more fitting for one of their feud buildup matches on Smackdown (like a Dragon/TAKA vs. Rey/Eddie tag match or something) to do 10 minutes, tops.

On 06/23/03 at 22:36:41, KoolKing wrote:This probably should have been mentioned sooner, but any chance of adding the second part of the card statistics plugin (total card time) as an integrated TNM feature? Since the average star rating is already in, why not nullify the CardStats plugin as a whole?

On 06/24/03 at 02:02:30, 91 wrote:
I'm thinking not very at all. Problem is, regardless of how you book a match, it's still largely in your control when you simulate it. Say you have 30 minutes left of a card with two matches to go. The first of these finishes after 15 minutes. Fair enough, but then you decide to continue that match there and then and you end up letting it finish after 35 minutes. That leaves one match left with -5 minutes, and doubtless you'd get some problem or another from that.

On 06/24/03 at 11:58:10, Oliver Copp wrote:

Cage could work, I'll have to look at the code. Ladder doesn't make sense logically because once you retrieve the object from the top of the ladder, how do you eliminate others?

On 06/23/03 at 22:36:41, KoolKing wrote:This probably should have been mentioned sooner, but any chance of adding the second part of the card statistics plugin (total card time) as an integrated TNM feature? Since the average star rating is already in, why not nullify the CardStats plugin as a whole?

On 06/24/03 at 23:18:07, Oliver Copp wrote:

Please send your check here:

Oliver Copp
Ergoldinger Strasse 8b
84030 Landshut
Germany

Thanks !