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ideas for some export guidelines

LillaThrillaPosted on 02/15/03 at 03:08:47

During 2002, i tried to do a project called the TNM Export Committee (TEC).   This was during the dark days of no TNM UK and almost no Oliver.  It got some interest and some ideas but never really took off.

One key idea was the idea for "standards" or semi-official guidelines for TNM exports.  That way if you downloaded exports you'd know that they'd all be based around the same sort of pattern and all mesh together well.  I'm reposting them here to see if they can be refined further and if the idea can garner more interest.

P.S. There were some further ideas like a standardized move list but I'll discuss that idea at later date if this topic goes somewhere :P
LillaThrillaPosted on 02/15/03 at 03:11:21

CHARISMA
100 - insanely over.  Austin or Rock at their peak.  Fans use your catchphrases during other wrestlers interviews, cheer/jeer you the moment they see you before you even speak, etc.
90 - very over.  most successful stars. You can get a reaction from the crowd with ease.
80 - over. the crowd cheers/jeers you, will occasionally fill in catchphrases for you or can get prompted to chant 'you suck'. But they tend to need some prodding.
70 - blah. crowd wont ignore you, might pop for your finisher, or a witty remark during an interview.
60 - DUD. Crowd is dead during your matches, nobody really gives a shit. On the upside, they don't hate you.
50 - zzzzz. Time for a bathroom break or a run to the popcorn stand. People may groan when they
hear you mentioned as being on the card.
40 - shoot me now, please shoot me now. Get the hell of my TV you boring fuck...
30 or less - I'd rather watch my grass grow...
Charisma wouldn't neccesarily be set exactly at these numbers, but its more of a guide for about
where they should be.
LillaThrillaPosted on 02/15/03 at 03:12:33

WORKRATE
Workrate is based on a sum of a bunch of different things.  Moves, Styles, Combos, Selling, Bumping, Intangibles.

FACTOR: Moves
MIN SCORE: 10
MAX SCORE: 50
DETAILS: for every move a wrestler has in their moves list, they recieve 1 point. Thus if a wrestler maxes out their moveset, they get 50 pts. Any moves which are repeated only count once.
FURTHER IDEAS: exclude certain simple moves, like basic punches & kicks?

FACTOR: Styles
MIN SCORE: 1
MAX SCORE: 10
DETAILS: for every style a wrestler has checked off (and every wrestler should have at least 1), they recieve 1 point. If they have more than 3 checked, the recieve an additional 1 point.
FURTHER IDEAS: no bonus for certain styles? make points for Styles be "extra credit" points only?

FACTOR: Combos
MIN SCORE: 0
MAX SCORE: 10
DETAILS: 1 point for a cross-corner move of any kind, 2 point if they have a two-move corner series OR 3 points if they have a 3 move corner series, and 4 points for having a combo. Also, a 2 point bonus if they have all 3.
FURTHER IDEAS: make this "extra points" only or drop it entirely?

FACTOR: Selling Ability
MIN SCORE: 0
MAX SCORE: 10
DETAILS: How well they sell the effect of "damage" from moves. Also rather artibrary. This means not only during the match, but from other matches or events in the show or even during the fued. This includes remembering to sell the proper body part (leg gets hurt so when the wrestler kicks his opponent it hurts; right knee is being worked on and he limps with that leg not his good leg). Also, they should sell within the realm of their gimmick. Don't completely count it against them if they have a super unstoppable monster gimmick and they don't sell punches, although on the same note such a wrestler wouldn't get a 10 either. Bret Hart was great at this during his prime and would get a 10. Somewhone who sells horribly and get a 0 would be Chyna.
FURTHER IDEAS: none at this point

FACTOR: Bumping Ability
MIN SCORE: 0
MAX SCORE: 10
DETAILS: how well a wrestler bumps. this is sort of an arbitrary thing. Bumping is an offshoot of Selling Ability, regarding their ability to make high impact falls and hits (like falling off a cage) look real. Guys like Mick Foley and Shawn Michaels during most of their careers would get an easy 10. Hogan would be a good example of a 0.
FURTHER IDEAS: make this an 'extra credit only' factor?

FACTOR: Intangibles
MIN SCORE: 0
MAX SCORE: 10
DETAILS: miscellaneous stuff that seperates bad from average and good from great. Psychology, quality and variance of transistions, etc.
FURTHER IDEAS: more stuff that goes here that isn't covered yet?
LillaThrillaPosted on 02/15/03 at 03:14:23

PUSH
100 - Main eventers of major feds (WWE).
90 - Main eventers of minor feds (TNA). Some upper-midcarders of majors.
80 - Main eventers of indy feds. Most midcarders for major feds, some midcarders for minors.
70 - Main eventers of really low end indys. Any remaining midcarders from majors/minors.
60 - Most indy midcarders. Jobbers to the stars in majors & minors.
50 - Most jobbers, maybe a few indy midcarders
40 - Leftovers, jobberwise.
30 or less - the guys who live to lose. Duane Gill types.
91Posted on 02/15/03 at 12:10:26

I did a little bit of playing around with workrates a while back and found on average, two wrestlers with a workrate of 80 will generally get about a DUD. Since very few matches are bad enough to score negative ratings in the real world in the first place, most of the guys in my database have a minimum workrate of 80 (save for the really useless guys, and even then I've only got a couple of guys below 70 - Giant Gonzales, Zeus, I think Evad Sullivan too, Jackie Gayda if I'd bothered to import her would be, that's about it).

Having anyone with a workrate below 60 is just begging for a -***** (negative 5) match, even against guys with a maximum workrate.

Negative matches with guys in the low 80's do occassionally crop up still, but that's a fair reflection of life anyway, so that's alright.
Tom_ImpPosted on 02/15/03 at 17:23:20

I know most people would never do this and would think I'm crazy for raising the stats so high, but in order to make certain wrestlers "unstoppable" I had to raise all four attributes up to 100.

This would include Batista, Bill Goldberg, Brock Lesnar, Ultimate Warrior, etc. You know, the wrestlers that pretty much destroy everyone they get in the ring with.
The only way I've found to make them this dominant in TNM is to raise all the attributes to their max, even though most don't deserve it. I mean, no way any of those 4 have a work rate of 100, but without it they are susceptible to be beaten by anyone at anytime.

If there was one main thing I could change about TNM it would be the ability to keep the attributes accurate but also be able to let TNM know it would take a superhuman effort to defeat that wrestler.
91Posted on 02/15/03 at 19:15:22

On 02/15/03 at 18:52:47, lvpro wrote:> If there was one main thing I could change about TNM > it would be the ability to keep the attributes accurate > but also be able to let TNM know it would take a
> superhuman effort to defeat that wrestler.

That's what booking is for. If you don't want somebody to get beat, book them to win. Their attributes aren't all that important in that case.
That's all well and good, but some people like to leave everything unbooked and work around whatever results TNM generates.
Tom_ImpPosted on 02/15/03 at 19:48:11

On 02/15/03 at 19:15:22, 91 wrote:

That's all well and good, but some people like to leave everything unbooked and work around whatever results TNM generates.
Thank you 91, you beat me to it. I never book endings and frankly have never understood why anyone else does. I like to see who TNM thinks are the better wrestlers and leave it completely up to the program who wins and who loses.

To me booking endings is worthless. Why bother using the program if you are just going to tell it what to do anyway?
91Posted on 02/15/03 at 20:27:21

On 02/15/03 at 19:48:11, Tom_Imp wrote:

Thank you 91, you beat me to it. I never book endings and frankly have never understood why anyone else does. I like to see who TNM thinks are the better wrestlers and leave it completely up to the program who wins and who loses.

To me booking endings is worthless. Why bother using the program if you are just going to tell it what to do anyway?
Actually I book everything. I use TNM as a program to book and run my own circuit as I choose, whilst dealing with whatever injury/contract/hiring problems it throws at me. It's mostly been for my own amusement up until now anyway.

It all depends on what the user wants anyway. It probably varies from person to person, but I find my circuit is a LOT better when I control what goes on as opposed to when I don't.
BlueStarPosted on 02/17/03 at 14:46:45

When wrestlers are created, they should have a number of low-impact, "standard" moves like a chop, a kick, a punch, etc. When you create a wrestler with all high-flying spots, he'll have a bigger chance of winning the match, because all his moves are high-impact. While this is not forbidden, all high-flyers should still have a basic moveset.
Just an idea to make things more realistic (come on, give Hogan a chance to win a match  :D   )
BlueStarPosted on 02/17/03 at 16:23:49

A small note on the Workrate : I agree there should be some system on it, but the number of moves should not be the major concern as far as work rate goes. Take for example Ric Flair...even now the guy has a decent workrate, yet a limited amount of moves. Compare this to eg. Sabu, who had a lot more moves but is more of a spot-machine with a lot of resting involved.
91Posted on 02/17/03 at 19:17:38

On 02/17/03 at 16:23:49, BlueStar wrote:A small note on the Workrate : I agree there should be some system on it, but the number of moves should not be the major concern as far as work rate goes. Take for example Ric Flair...even now the guy has a decent workrate, yet a limited amount of moves. Compare this to eg. Sabu, who had a lot more moves but is more of a spot-machine with a lot of resting involved.
Ahhhh, so very true - some people make too much out of the size of someone's moveset, but it's not the size that counts, it's what you do with it.