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Yet another request
| Carlzilla | Posted on 08/02/05 at 02:36:40 I would like to see a "desperation finisher" or "big match finisher" field. While working on my puro exports I realized that some guys have big moves that are done very rarely (Kobashi's Burning Hammer, Misawa's Tiger Driver '91, or Kurt Angle's Super Angle Slam for example). I don't want to put these moves in to the wrestlers movelists because then they will be doing them during normal matches and way to often. But if there was a field like the existing desperation move one (which says that it should not be used to assign regular moves, hence the request) that could be used to give wrestlers a rarely used "super finisher" that would be excellent. |
| Snabbit888 | Posted on 08/02/05 at 05:59:31 I like this idea a lot. Maybe it could tie in with the upcoming Feud Manager. For instance, if there is a feud you have set and you're having the big blowoff match, there will be a greater chance that the big match finisher will be used. |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 08/02/05 at 06:10:01 I concur. This would be an excellent feature, and definately should be put in if it's at all plausible. Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |
| Oliver Copp | Posted on 08/02/05 at 13:18:20 Well... I like the idea... but I dread the thought of having to change the structure of the wrestler records this late in the game. It would automatically mean that we'd have to make a new export file format, a new internal data format and new versions of all programs dealing with wrestler data, including all plugins such as the Database Cleaner, TNM7DIAG and so on. I just don't see myself doing it at this point. Worse, it could easily lead to data corruption if somebody for instance updated his main program but not the Database Cleaner (which - obviously - in this version wouldn't know how to deal with the different data structure and would hence butcher your wrestler database beyond hope). |
| Carlzilla | Posted on 08/02/05 at 13:32:55 Could the way the program deals with the "desperation move" field be changed so that using the big finisher there wouldn't kill the match logic? I'm sure that would be a bit of programming, but it might allow for the already existing field to be used for this new feature. Just a thought... |
| Oliver Copp | Posted on 08/02/05 at 14:53:06 Not really because desperation finishers need to be counterable... which in turn means TNM has to save the number of the moves used to counter the desperation finisher. Which in turn means that new fields have to be added to the wrestler records... which in turn means the plugins like the Database Cleaner need to be changed and so on. It's a Pandora's box. |
| triad4evr | Posted on 08/05/05 at 03:15:54 Here's a thought- Don't know if it's doable but every move in the game has a certain percentage chance of coming up, right? What if the user could change the weight of a specific move on the list so it doesn't happen as often as the other moves on his or her list or, for that matter, the user could change the weights of all the moves. Is that possible? Anyway, that's the best I got... |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 08/05/05 at 08:22:43 That would only go partway towards creating the desired effect, however. It would make a certain move (or moves) very rare, but when they occurred they wouldn't be any more deadly than a standard finisher-like move at best. We're talking about desperation moves that are only pulled out as a last resort. I suppose that if you dropped the damage rating in your circuit drastically and made it so that all of your wrestlers had desperation finishers in their finisher spot, you MIGHT be able to do this. The finisher-like move would probably end up resulting in most falls in such a circumstance (although you'd also get a ton of time limit draws). But that's a VERY crude solution with the program structured as it presently is. The other possible solution is to restructure exports once again in the next build. In order to minimize problems, you'd then have to: 1) Put exports for a new build in a different spot than exports for the old build with a warning at the top of the page that the new ones won't work in the old builds. 2) Make the old Database Cleaner and possibly Diagnostic Utility incompatible with the new build, releasing new versions of both. 3) Maybe replace the finisher-like move with a secondary finisher prompt similar to the standard finisher. You could then place some generic "Secondary Finisher" placeholder where needed in the wrestler's moveset, presumably with a redirect pointing to the string containing the move's name. There would also be a box you could check. "Desperation finisher." This would make it so that the move only triggered in extreme cases - when the wrestler is at 0% health, has the crowd totally behind them, when the other finisher has already been tried, 20 minutes into the match, when there were no remaining booking instructions, etc. This move would result in a virtually guaranteed pinfall or submission victory. This would obviously prevent you from sticking the "Secondary Finisher" placeholder anywhere else. Really, though, this seems like WAY more trouble than it'd be worth, unfortunately. Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |
| Oliver Copp | Posted on 08/05/05 at 10:34:11 Eric ---- 1) and 2) Picture somebody who uses an old TNM with old plugins, then updates his TNM to the latest version but forgets to also update the Database Cleaner. If he uses it, his TNM will be shot. I can't retroactively make somebody's installed plugins incompatible with a new Build. How am I supposed to do that? Magic :)? Likewise with the export files. How should I update somebody's TNM to not recognize the newer export files? 3) You just gave me an idea. Has anybody ever seen a desperation finisher being countered? It's a move you hit when you have no other choice. And personally, I have never seen one miss. Hence, do we really need counters to a desperation finisher? |
| Carlzilla | Posted on 08/05/05 at 10:48:06 I have seen it kicked out of...but very very very rarely but, I've never seen it countered...it's pretty much the "that's definatly the end of the match" kinda move. |
| Snabbit888 | Posted on 08/05/05 at 11:25:03 I'd think that if it's a desperation move and so rarely used, psychology wise, more than likely the opponent isn't going to have the move scouted because it's so rarely used. Thus, I have no problems personally with desperation moves being impossible to counter. As long as they don't pop up every match. :) |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 08/05/05 at 15:34:20On 08/05/05 at 10:34:11, Oliver Copp wrote:Eric ----I'll have to take your word for this because I'm not a programmer. I was hoping that you could program TNM to recognise the old Database cleaner (most likely by the string used to identify it) and automatically block it when you try to launch it. Presumably it would instead pop a message up saying "This version of Database Cleaner is incompatible with this build of TNM. Please download Database Clean + from TNM7.com." Or something like that. But if you say it isn't feasible, I'll take your word for it. Like I said, I'm not a programmer. Likewise with the export files. How should I update somebody's TNM to not recognize the newer export files?Would an export file using a file extention the program doesn't know be detected by TNM? If you kept it basically in the same format but called the new ones .xpt or somesuch, that could possibly work, yes? 3) You just gave me an idea. Has anybody ever seen a desperation finisher being countered? It's a move you hit when you have no other choice. And personally, I have never seen one miss. Hence, do we really need counters to a desperation finisher?I haven't seen them countered, no. I would have no problem with them being impossible to counter so long as they're only rarely (every 5-10 matches at most) triggered. Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |