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Real three-way and four-way matches...

AnubisPosted on 07/22/04 at 23:27:07

Well, I have seen something that's needed to be addressed for quite a while. I've seen many Three-Way Dances and Four-Way Dances in my lifetime, but I don't think I ever recall seeing one where only two wrestlers can be in the ring at a time; most of the time, all wrestlers involved are in all the time. Yet, in TNM, all such matches only allow two in at a time, never all the competitors. It's crazy where I have a Four Corners Match and two people lose because they're not "tagged in" when the end comes.

Some of the silliness I've seen has included a Hardcore Three-Way Dance where one of the people involved wasn't for a good 50 minutes while the other two battled all over the arena (and thus weren't able to make tags). This is sheer insanity.

All the same, why does anybody "make the save" in an elimination match?  Makes no sense.  If everyone has to be pinned, and they're not on the same team, there's no reason for one wrestler to make the save for another.

I know TNM can have more than two at a time because Battle Royales do it. So why don't the Three-Way and Four-Way Matches? I think this should be fixed ASAP. There should be an option to allow all people in at once.
cerberosPosted on 07/22/04 at 23:49:42

First off some early WWF triangle matches only two men were in the ring at once.  Also at Starrcade 1995 the Sting/Luger/Flair match was one man on the apron.  Anyway you can do them the way you want by doing 3 or 4 man battle royals.  As for saves it happens because quite often you have two heels and a face or two faces and heel and they save their 'friends'.  Like Triple H/X-Pac/The Rock from several years ago.  Just my two cents
AnubisPosted on 07/23/04 at 04:23:43

I figured both of those things would be brought up.

As for saving your friends, that doesn't explain why faces try to save heels and vice versa when none of the involved participants have no beef with each other.  (In a recent battle royale that I ran, a face tried to save a heel from another face, and none of them had any problem with each other in that none of them were in each other's queues.)  That makes no sense at all.  Basically, the elimination style matches should be done that only those on the same team/stable would save one another.

On that same note, I wish TNM could freaking recognize members of a team/stable when running such matches; it's stupid having one face eliminate his face partner right at the beginning of the match.

Anyway, as for running a battle for a true Three-Way Dance or Four-Way Dance, that doesn't really work as you can't have countouts or disqualifications in such matches.  Basically, the base type needs to be edited to allow an OPTION to have only two but have the standard be all at the same time.  That would be best I'm sure.
Owen Hart RIPPosted on 07/23/04 at 07:17:14

The only wat I can see a heel saving a face or vice-versa, is if his title was on the line and did not want one of the other guys to get it.
LionsaultPosted on 08/02/04 at 21:35:05

Most 3 and 4 way matches tend to have one guy knocked on the outside for many minutes while two battle in the ring.

As for making the saves, sometimes wrestler's egos make them save people they hate, just to have another chance at getting to do the elimination themselves.
91Posted on 08/02/04 at 22:04:21

On 07/23/04 at 07:17:14, Owen Hart RIP wrote:The only wat I can see a heel saving a face or vice-versa, is if his title was on the line and did not want one of the other guys to get it.
Or indeed any time it was one fall to a finish.
AnubisPosted on 08/02/04 at 23:48:35

On 08/02/04 at 21:35:05, Lionsault wrote:Most 3 and 4 way matches tend to have one guy knocked on the outside for many minutes while two battle in the ring.

As for making the saves, sometimes wrestler's egos make them save people they hate, just to have another chance at getting to do the elimination themselves.
Not for 50+ minutes like what happened in one of mine, and certainly not in a hardcore match.  Look at some old ECW tapes.

On the saves thing, I could see it happening onece or twice, but in TNM it's a REGULAR OCCURANCE.  That doesn't ring true with actual professional wrestling.  Such saves are few a far between, less than once per year most likely.  In fact, I can't honestly think of even one time it's happened in a mainstream fed in recent memory.

On 08/02/04 at 22:04:21, 91 wrote:

Or indeed any time it was one fall to a finish.
Well, I've been talking only about elimination matches the whole time, so that point is pretty moot.
91Posted on 08/03/04 at 14:30:59

Relating to Owens point, if someones title was on the line during an elimination match, they wouldn't need to save a fall, unless it was one fall to a finish.
Owen Hart, RIPPosted on 08/03/04 at 16:43:12

On 08/03/04 at 14:30:59, 91 wrote:Relating to Owens point, if someones title was on the line during an elimination match, they wouldn't need to save a fall, unless it was one fall to a finish.
True, all I was saying is that I saw it before at a local indy fed, and even once during an ECCW (an NWA-based Canadian indy promotion) card
LionsaultPosted on 08/03/04 at 19:51:48

Uh, yes, even in ECW three way matches all 3 guys wouldn't be in the ring the whole time, one guy would be knocked out on the outside for a bit until he came back in.
AnubisPosted on 08/04/04 at 00:53:38

NOT very freaking often.  That would be a rarity.  Most of the time, the brawls were truly three-way.  One big example was the big Masato Tanaka/Mike Awesome/Taz match.  Although all three were only in a few minutes, all three pretty much brawled the whole time.

The point is even more glaring when there are four; in such matches, very rarely are all four not wrestling, and they usually wrestle in pairs.  That can't happen now in TNM.

Just out of curiosity, why are several of you so set against having this fixed?  I would like to see things more true to real wrestling, and the things you're talking about are rare exceptions, not a common occurance.
Owen Hart, RIPPosted on 08/04/04 at 15:31:46

I have nothing against fixing this! Yes the things I mentioned are rare! Even if Oliver does not fix it entirely (like say a no-saves on opposite dispositions flag (heel-face, vice versa), I think that would be pretty cool. Probably keep the tag triangle matches, but add an option for every wrestler to be in the ring at once.
xsouporheroxPosted on 08/04/04 at 20:25:10

I'm used to RoH where there are only two legal men at a time and it's always first fall to the finish. Works better in my opinion. ::shrug::
Owen Hart, RIPPosted on 08/04/04 at 20:56:06

Good point, but that's just a triangle match, not a true triple threat
AnubisPosted on 08/05/04 at 11:08:53

That's what I mean. You should have the option of doing it all four ways, especially since "all at once" is the mainstream more often. There should be four ways:

Three/Four-Way, Tag
Three/Four-Way, All
Three/Four-Way, Tag Elimination
Three/Four-Way, All Elimination

I would think such a thing would be easy to code seeing as battle royales already allow "all-at-once". Only problem is that don't work for regular matches because you can't have the normal rules (DQ and CO) in battle royales.  That and it'd be impossible to have "tornado" tag team matches.
TNM7Posted on 08/11/04 at 05:36:57

There is a "True 3/4 Dance" Plug in.

You can find it at my exports page!

OR the direct link is: http://www.geocities.com/tnm7exportcity/dance.zip