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Wrestlers quitting too often

AnubisPosted on 07/04/04 at 22:10:48

I think there needs to be something added that adds a little AI to the "wrestler quits" thing.  Right now, it seems that TNM just decides it arbitrarily and randomly.

I hate it when my main eventer quits for no reason whatsoever.  Makes no sense.

There needs to be a change in how TNM decides when/if a wrestler quits, and there needs to be some kind of explanation.
PulsarPosted on 07/05/04 at 01:15:25

I belive it depends on the amount of wrestlers in your fed, there current push, and about 1 billion other factors that Oliver may be the only one who knows.

Try hiring every wrestler in your database. After 20 or so, it'll get kind of rough.
91Posted on 07/05/04 at 14:05:35

If I remember completely correctly (and lord knows it was several years since I asked Olly myself), it is somewhat random but "happy" wrestlers are more likely to stay than "unhappy" ones.

I think, among any other factors there may be, wrestlers are happy if they are being pushed relative to their push value (IE don't have your guy with a push of 100 losing to midcarders on every show) and if there's plenty of other big names on the roster. Things that make them unhappy include not booking them for shows, booking them several times on one show and forcing them to work whilst injured.

Plus of course, if you have two hundred guys on your roster, chances are SOMEBODY is going to quit every so often. That said, I have about sixty wrestlers on mine and I barely ever have anyone leave me.
Owen Hart RIPPosted on 07/05/04 at 18:05:46

I actually had a guy quit on me after the first card! AND THAT WAS AFTER WINNING THE WWE TITLE! I think his initials were RVD! I just went and cheated, put my circuit in E-Mail mode, and hired him back. Then went back to regular mode.
AnubisPosted on 07/05/04 at 21:56:49

That's the type of thing I'm talking about.  I've had the same thing happen with main eventers.  Basically, I think there should be a hidden morale value similar to heat that goes up and down based on what you do with someone.
AnubisPosted on 07/07/04 at 09:02:43

I also think the "size limit" should be adjusted.  I don't know of any major promotion that has ever worked with a roster of 20, and that seems to be about the limit before you have severe difficulty getting people to join and when people start quitting more often.
Rick GarrardPosted on 07/07/04 at 14:33:18

TNA comes to mind when it first started 2 years ago.  They couldn't have had more than 20 guys on their entire roster.  But they have slowly built up to where they are now.  And have had quite a few comings and goings as well.

And in fact, if you book things so that TNM likes them, you have less of a chance of quittings and walk outs from your talents.  At one point with BCW I had 35 guys under contract and not once did one walk at that point.
Critic of the DawnPosted on 07/07/04 at 20:00:41

I kind of like things the way they are.  The first 20 odd wrestlers can reasonably be assumed to be the core of your promotion - you signed them before starting the promotion, and if you hadn't been able to, you wouldn't have started it.  After that, things get a bit more into real time.  Not everyone will be available if you want to add them to that core.  If you work at it, however, you can build up quite a sizable roster - in circuits where I would attempt to bring in 1 new worker after each card, my roster size hovered around 40.  While WWE does have many more wrestlers than this under contract, a lot of them are wasted and rarely appear on anything other than B-shows.  Things as they are now discourage you from booking 18 hour long cards to try to include everyone, force you to make difficult choices (Who do you want for the big angle if Sting won't sign?), and encourage an occasional roster shake-up.  If it was easier to always hire the wrestlers you wanted, things would get old a lot faster.

Eric "Critic of the Dawn"
91Posted on 07/07/04 at 22:05:55

Yes, it does make matters a bit easy if you could just have all the guys you wanted handed to you on a silver platter, that's not realistic. If you want to bypass that, there are various ways of forcing guys to work for you.
AnubisPosted on 07/08/04 at 01:03:30

Well I'm not thinking a HUGE boost, just maybe from 20 to 30 (to simulate a decent WWE/WCW/ECW roster size).

I dunno, maybe you're right. One thing that's definitely need, though, is a change in how often people quit. I can never figure out why people quit.

Recently, a wrestler named Chris Fate quit my circuit for no reason it seems. His core stats are Work Rate 72, Push 50, Stamina 77, Charisma 65. He's basically a normal basic midcard talent, and I used him as such. Over the course of five cards, he lost three singles matches, won a tag team match, and lost a tag team match. (He's intended to be a tag team wrestler, primarily, and the losses were of varying types, mostly screwjobs to the heels he and his partner are feuding with. You know, proper feud building.) Anyway, after the fifth card, he quit immediately, and I can't figure out why. I do NOT have strict pushes on, so wins and losses are his own fault, and I never booked any of it but rather let TNM decide everything.

Explain the logic in THAT. He was one of my big feuds (my main midcard feud, in fact), and now his tag team partner is left with nothing and my entire midcard is goofed up.  Doesn't TNM know what a legally binding contract is???
Rick GarrardPosted on 07/08/04 at 01:25:00

All I can say is that some of my best work as resulted on the mere fact that TNM can and usually does screw you at the very worst times.  :)
xsouporheroxPosted on 07/08/04 at 02:10:21

A push of 50 isn't really a midcard push if i remember the push scale right.
91Posted on 07/08/04 at 13:10:56

On 07/08/04 at 01:03:30, Anubis wrote:Well I'm not thinking a HUGE boost, just maybe from 20 to 30 (to simulate a decent WWE/WCW/ECW roster size).
It also means you're less likely to jam your roster full of main eventers as after you've gotten Flair, Bret, Hogan, Shawn, Angle, Austin, Undertaker, Sting, Steamboat, Rock, Savage, Warrior, Foley, Piper, Benoit, Helmsley, Vader, Luger, Slaughter and Race, that attempt to sign Kevin Nash and add yet another unneeded name to the main event might fall through. Again, that's realistic, and again you can always bypass that if you really want to.
AnubisPosted on 07/16/04 at 22:51:18

On 07/08/04 at 02:10:21, xsouporherox wrote:A push of 50 isn't really a midcard push if i remember the push scale right.
Yes, it is.  From what I read, 0 is jobber, 50 is midcard, and 100 is main event.

Or rather:

0-20: Jobber
21-40: Lower Midcard
41-60: Midcard
61-80: Upper Midcard
81-100: Main Eventer
xsouporheroxPosted on 07/16/04 at 23:08:58

What I remember of the scale, midcarders were like 80-85. Saw it somehwere around here.
Owen Hart RIPPosted on 07/16/04 at 23:13:05

Actually, I asked Oliver about this a few years ago and he told me that the midcard push (at least in TNM) starts at 60 (the lowest you can have in TNM is a push of 1) If the midcard push started at 50 then that would make Iron Mike Sharpe a midcarder instead of a working jobber, her is the way oliver put it to me:

I think it's more like this

1-49 would be a push for a squash jobber
50-65 would be a push for a working jobber
darkmimePosted on 07/17/04 at 21:56:04

Well, quitting and no-shows can definitely cause some fun though, if you look on the bright side.

Recently in my circuit the Powers of Pain were the World Tag Team Champions and then...

Card 1: Barbarian no shows.
Card 2: Warlord no shows.
Card 3: barbarian no shows
After Card 3 - Warlord quits

It certainly made the Tag Team scene more exciting :p
AnubisPosted on 07/18/04 at 04:34:00

Well, I saw the most recent post Oliver made regarding pushes, and from what I gather, there was a slight change in TNM7 SE stats to make things more accurate.

On the thread I looked at, he basically said that around 50 or 60 is midcard, and jobbers are around 10, with your main event being 80+.
Owen Hart RIPPosted on 07/19/04 at 02:35:43

I usually don't use strict pushes anyway. I book a lot of my cards anyway so the push don't mean much when you  book and don't use strict pushes.