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The Unverse (Introduction)

UnrightPosted on 12/13/05 at 04:15:40

Ever since Oliver put the Talent Limitation feature in I've been dabbling with multi-fed universes. So with my new computer comes a new universe, the "Unverse" as it was. I know... it's a shitty name, but it's the catchiest I can come up with given my nickname.

There's going to be ten feds. Five majors leagues and five minor leagues.

The Majors:
WWE Raw
WWE Smackdown (The separate brands will actually run as seperate feds. No cross-promoting.)
Total Nonstop Action Wrestling
Slam Masters Wrestling Association (Yes, Kirk's fantasy fed wrestlers are downloaded and installed. I've tamed them down to be a bit more human.)
New Japan Pro Wrestling

The Minors:
Ring Of Honor
International Wrestling Syndicate
Platinum Xtreme Wrestling (Made up 'extreme' style fed)
Hollywood Wrestling Production (Another fabricated fed, essentially every wrestler here gets renamed with a motion picture character's name.  Their real identity won't be revealed, but sometimes it will be obvious based on their finisher or their chosen name. Names are chosen based on whatever I've watched recently)
The Indies (Anyone not in the above 9 feds is technically in "The Indies".)


Schedule:

The major feds will have 2 shows a week (a major & a minor) and the minor feds will have 1 show a week. Every fed (except the Indies) will have a monthly supercard. Here's a weekly breakdown of the current schedule:

Sunday: Heat, NJPW Samurai TV
Monday: Raw, Massacre
Tuesday: ROH, PXW
Wednesday: NJPW Samurai TV, Indies
Thursday: TNA Xplosion, HWC
Friday: SD!, IWS,
Saturday: Velocity, SNSM, TNA Impact!

Now before anyone complains, let me explain. My secret to making this work is to keep a simple schedule. So NJPW will not have a touring schedule and instead will have a western style 2 weekly shows (to be named) and a monthly supercard/PPV.

Rules for signup:

For Majors contract, random amount between 6 months & 4 years
When a champion quits, his belt is vacated.
For Minors contract, random amount between 6 months & 1 year
Champions will continue to defend their belt, even while not under contract, until they lose.
All rejections will be honored (no forced hirings)

Push

To be honest, I'm facinated by push. One of the finer arts of booking is to manage how much everyone is pushed. Since the Unverse is unbooked, it's up to the wrestlers to do well to further their careers.

To start, all the wrestlers in the major feds are ranked and assigned a ranked pushed between 30 and 90. All minor feds wrestlers are assigned a rank between 10 and 70. Anyone in "The Indies" has a starting rank of 25.

Anybody with a push higher than 75 will refuse to work for any minor fed. (It's beneath them, too "bush league", etc..)
Anybody with a push less than 25 is considered unhireable by any major fed.

Push changes according to the following rules:
For a win: +1
For winning w/ finisher: +1
For an upset (beating someone w/ higher push): +1
For every upset 10 push points: +1
For a battle royal elimination: +1
For a Super Card/PPV win: +1
For a Super Card/PPV Gimmick Match win: +1
For a Title win: +2
Loser gets the negative amount adjusted to their push.
Winning a 5 star match: +1

So if Ric Flair beats Rob Conway by Coutout. Flair gets +1 Push Points and Conway loses a push point. It's not considered a great victory by any means.
If Juventud (58) beats Batista (90) in a Last Man Standing Match with the Juvi Driver for the World Title at No Way Out, then he gets... around +10 push points. That will catapult him in the rankings, but he would be considered a weak champ and Batista would be heavily favored to beat him in a rematch.

Other:

Yes, if anyone is wondering, I am a stat junkie. Always have been. I've been tweaking the multi-fed format for a while now, and this works best for me. As time goes on (in fed time) I might make more tweaks. I reserve every right.  Also, since this will output a hell of a lot of cards (69 cards every month!) I'll post all January cards in a January Unverse thread, etc.. Don't expect fully written out cards, but I will post match notes.

Also, retired and deceased wrestlers will be used. If you have a problem with that. Don't read. Simple as that.
americamamushiPosted on 12/13/05 at 05:18:17

Looks like you've got a lot to keep yourself busy with :)

Are you going to get Olly to put up a new sub-board for it?  If you weren't going to I'd suggest you do.  With as much as you've got going on I think it'd help bring people in to have a place just for it.
UnrightPosted on 12/13/05 at 06:42:18

Eh.. There's already at least 8 sub-boards decidated to feds that aren't being used.  I'd hate to add to the clutter by setting up a sub-board then mysterious close up shop.

I'll get established first.
Snabbit888Posted on 12/13/05 at 06:57:14

Hey, mine gets used.  Just not recently because of finals (though after Thursday, they're done!)  Jerk. :)
UnrightPosted on 12/13/05 at 15:28:18

You are, of course, the exception Ryan. I hear ya on the finals though. I've got 5 this week. 1 yesterday, 1 today, 2 tomorrow and 1 on friday. TNM is giving me nice little oasises (oasii?) of mental respite.

Maybe I could just takeover something like the TNM 3:16 Universe. I really don't think Liller has any plans whatsoever for the fed folder. Maybe I can hi-jack it and change the name.....
91Posted on 12/13/05 at 19:46:56

On 12/13/05 at 04:15:40, Unright wrote:
Push changes according to the following rules:
For a win: +1
For winning w/ finisher: +1
For an upset (beating someone w/ higher push): +1
For every upset 10 push points: +1
For a battle royal elimination: +1
For a Super Card/PPV win: +1
For a Super Card/PPV Gimmick Match win: +1
For a Title win: +2
Winning a 5 star match: +1
Loser gets the negative amount adjusted to their push.
Just a couple of notes - doesn't this system risk a case of the rich getting richer, if you see what I mean? If someone has a bit of a winning streak, whereas someone else loses a few big matches, even though those two wrestlers might have started with similar pushes, it could create an impregnable gulf between the two. At the same time, some wrestlers could become near unbeatable while some become so terrible that they never win.

And is it really fair for someone to lose a point if they lose a five star match? That's a case of their own excellence actually working against them, which doesn't seem fair. If you're going to use the system and you can make it work, perhaps that bit could be balanced out.

Still, the large universe should be good fun to read providing a) you can keep each fed interesting and b), if possible, you can create a nice a nice distinction between each fed. I'll certainly check it out.

And perhaps someone should think of removing some of those old boards - Tommy Brownells at the very least hasn't been used for a year, ditto Lillas. Even if they can just be hidden so they don't clutter everything up as much. And when is Oliver ever going to update his circuit? Hmmmm?
UnrightPosted on 12/14/05 at 00:28:06

On 12/13/05 at 19:46:56, 91 wrote:Just a couple of notes - doesn't this system risk a case of the rich getting richer, if you see what I mean? If someone has a bit of a winning streak, whereas someone else loses a few big matches, even though those two wrestlers might have started with similar pushes, it could create an impregnable gulf between the two. At the same time, some wrestlers could become near unbeatable while some become so terrible that they never win.
Well, to take a real world example. Remember the little feud between Chris Benoit and Orlando Jordan centering around Benoit's ability to beat Jordan in under 40 seconds? O.J. essentially lost about 5-6 matches in a row and as a consequence, I think his last match was on Velocity against some jobber.  Under my system, essentially he would be de-pushed similarly. I've considered an extra +/- 1 for matches under a minute, but decided against it.  

You're right about the 5 star match penalty though. Consider it eliminated. Winner gets +1 for 5 star matchup. Loser gets nothing.

On 12/13/05 at 19:46:56, 91 wrote:Still, the large universe should be good fun to read providing a) you can keep each fed interesting and b), if possible, you can create a nice a nice distinction between each fed. I'll certainly check it out.
Eh.. Running it in the past I've seen some feds get more interesting than others. I've never been great at booking so the incredibly wide persepective helps to camoflage the occasional bad booking (meaningless matches, dropped angles, etc..)
ZedjaPosted on 12/15/05 at 15:14:28

I will also use mine as soon as some personal problems clears up... It's been one thing after another here..
Rick GarrardPosted on 12/15/05 at 16:30:57

mine hasn't been updated because well... it takes two hours to run either a BCW or a CW card, and I have a hard time right now finding two hours to run a card.
VertigoPosted on 12/15/05 at 20:34:33

How does it take 2 hours to run a card?

I've tried the push point system a little. Not as hardcore as you did. I only changed pushes after every 5th show (PPV) based on how they performed and win/loss. In the long run it will eventually turn into losers always lose and winners always win.

If anything I would base push point solely on performance. That way the Top feds are putting on awesome shows and your main eventers are actually putting on main event matches.
91Posted on 12/15/05 at 22:07:27

On 12/15/05 at 20:34:33, Vertigo wrote:How does it take 2 hours to run a card?
Some people write a lot of comments and interviews on their card. Rick may also have the match speed set at a slower rate so that the match appears to him one line at a time.

On 12/15/05 at 20:34:33, Vertigo wrote:
If anything I would base push point solely on performance. That way the Top feds are putting on awesome shows and your main eventers are actually putting on main event matches.
I'm not sure on this - Hulk Hogan might put on poor matches, whilst, say, Psicosis is putting on good matches but should Psicosis suddenly be given a bigger push?
UnrightPosted on 12/15/05 at 22:54:01

On 12/15/05 at 20:34:33, Vertigo wrote:I've tried the push point system a little. Not as hardcore as you did. I only changed pushes after every 5th show (PPV) based on how they performed and win/loss. In the long run it will eventually turn into losers always lose and winners always win.
I find it reflects real life more that way. The top names are generally the same top names. Hogan, Austin, Rock, etc..  It just makes it so that if say The Undertaker were to lose a bunch of high-profile matches, it would cost him his standing.

Plus, it is a multi-fed universe. Someone may quit a fed with tough competition and go on to another fed where they shine.

On 12/15/05 at 20:34:33, Vertigo wrote:If anything I would base push point solely on performance. That way the Top feds are putting on awesome shows and your main eventers are actually putting on main event matches.
Top feds don't really always put on the best shows. WWE is paticular is notorious for hiring and pushing hosses. The WCW main event scene was a mess, and Jarrett is always at the top of TNA, but he's not considered their top talent by any means.

If anything the one problem with my system is movesets. Those wrestlers with really heavy-hitting movesets tend to  win unbooked matches regardless of push. In past feds where I've used this system someone like Chris Masters would capture the WWE Title and would never lose while Ric Flair slowly sinks to jobberdom.  

I'm just kinda waiting for Oliver's next plugin (the move damage listing one) to solve that problem.
Rick GarrardPosted on 12/15/05 at 23:57:18

How does it take 2 hours to run a card?

Some people write a lot of comments and interviews on their card. Rick may also have the match speed set at a slower rate so that the match appears to him one line at a time.
Well, I watch EVERY move in EVERY match.  And I usually have upwards of 7 to 8 matches per card with match length set to 8.  But the biggest time eater of all is that I write ALL of my comments between matches while I run the cards.  (I think between CW and WatA, I've only had to do a post-production edit three times so far.)  I'd say usually two-thirds of the card running time is devoted to my polishing the comments during the card so I don't have to do anything but copy and paste after the fact.

I could run all of my cards without comments between the matches, but then I'd leave out some of the better stuff that drives most of my cards.
colmatteusPosted on 12/16/05 at 01:00:53

Good things take time...  ;)

I'm lookin' forward to seeing how this project pans out.  You can def count on me to be a reader and to comment on this.  I'm hoping to do a universe at some point too, but I never find the time... so I'll just live vicariously through you :)
colmatteusPosted on 12/16/05 at 01:03:20

Gotta say though, I kinda agree about the points system. It's a tad complicated for my taste, but I'll be really interested to see what results it brings.  I'm a stat-head myself, so I know how you feel, brother ;)
WWFLives313Posted on 12/24/05 at 20:12:39

The whole stat/point system is really, really interesting and I am excited to see how this will turn out. I hope it turns out good and you keep posting, because you have a guaranteed reader right here. Good Luck.
Ghost Mask IIIPosted on 12/24/05 at 22:56:12

I echo the above post.  I'm reading, I'm reading!
Psymin1Posted on 01/24/06 at 04:43:16

Just wanted to bump this and see if your still planning it, Unright.  It looks like a great idea, and I would definitely read if you posted.  Later.


~Branden
UnrightPosted on 01/25/06 at 02:59:28

I'm beyond planning. I posted it a bit in the TNM 3:16 Universe forum (because it was essentially a dead forum). Then I set up a geocities website for it. The address is in my signature.

I probably won't update for a little while, though. I'm taking 18 credits of college courses, and I'm getting ready for my wedding in about 2 weeks. So, TNM will take a back seat for a little while.
rebelins313Posted on 01/26/06 at 00:27:27

Congratulations on getting married Unright!
Rick GarrardPosted on 01/27/06 at 00:53:29

Send my condolences to the bride-to-be.  ;)
UnrightPosted on 01/27/06 at 02:19:29

Thanks guys, Technically we've already been married for 7 months and we've been together for 4 years. We're just having the actual ceremony now, so that both anniversaries fall ont he same day.
AnubisPosted on 01/31/06 at 13:37:03

First, gratz on getting married.

Second, I think you're insane for attempting juggle this many circuits; it would be akin to playing TEW multiplayer by myself.

Third, Your push system is way too complicated. I used to have a stat system in TNM myself, and I thought maybe you might be interested in it; I also brainstormed a possibly simpler push system. Here they are, just in case you're interested.



As a fellow stat junkie, here is what I have to offer:

1. Any worker involved in a five-star match gets +1 to work rate, stamina, and charisma; this is to simulate someone getting better at their job, more or less.

2. I hate to make life more complicated, but I think certain feds would push people differently. For instance, since WWE pushes based on charisma, they would naturally push different people than Ring of Honor would. To wit, no amount of losses should decrease the push of a wrestler with a really high work rate in a place like Ring of Honor (or any pure wrestling promotion); in contrast, no number of wins should be able to elevate a wrestler with low charisma in WWE, regardless of work rate.

3. This might mess with your push system, but it might also make your life easier when combined with my note above. Just pick the pushes of people in your feds based on their card position, and change the push numbers based on pure performance. Since match ratings and heat are good indicators for various styles, you could increase push in pure promotions whenever a wrestler wrestlers, say, a four-star match or better (and down if they wrestler a one-star match or worse), while maybe in places like WWE push would go up when a wrestler with high heats wins a match, while the loser would lose a point. Something like that. I wouldn't put so many modifiers on as you have, though, otherwise you'll have a ton of people with 100 in fairly short order while the rest sit at 0. The bigger the gap, the more likely the person with the higher push will win (at about 50 it's almost guaranteed; the biggest upset I've ever seen was a 40-point gap when a 60 beat a 100). Basically, even if you don't follow most of this suggestion, I'd still suggest you limit gains/losses to 1 per card maximum.
rey619Posted on 01/31/06 at 19:22:12

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.. running a universe is beyond normal men. Unless you're unemployed and unattached, odds are you'll run out of time and energy within a month. Heck, even running a WWE fed is probably daunting enough. I ran a WWE fed for a full year, and that was difficult enough to maintain.

As for your suggestions Anubis, I agree somewhat. Like RoH, Homicide alwas gets title shots, even though he comes out on the losing end of most feuds he has. On the other hand, non-charismatic workers like Chris Benoit has been pushed to the top before, albeit not for very long.
UnrightPosted on 02/09/06 at 12:37:01

Thanks for the feedback..

1. I hesitate to add anything to the 4 basic stats. If I am to stimulate someone getting better, then I'd somehow have to stimulate them (or others) getting worse. Otherwise I'd end up with a few super wrestlers who could get a 5 star match at the drop of a hat.

2.  I hear ya on that.. But you're right, it would over-complicate things. You're describing something more like what TEW simulates. It's a massive complex computer program and I'm just this one guy. In truth, I'm not hoping for something realistic, just something interesting. If Abyss winds up in the WWE and captures the WWE title and holds onto it for 14 months straight, then that's what he does. I'd be hella impressed. Since it's unbooked, I see my role as more of a results interpreter. My challenge is to rationalize the WWE's booking decisions with a sorta coherent storyline.  

3. Eh.. I'm treating the Unverse as an experiment just to see what happens. I don't think I'll end up with the gap that some have suggested simply because those who hit that 100 level are going to have to fight each other. Theoretically there should always be a JTTS level.

After each month I'm planning on reviewing the feds and re-evaluating the rules, so it's always possible for some of your suggestions to be implemented.