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FORUM HOME > Wrestling > TNA
Has the crapfest started?
| Mr. Ken Kennedy | Posted on 09/10/07 at 01:55:13 I mean the PPV. I mean I like Angle but seeing him wrestle three times in one night is too much, well at least the "World Title" match is not Angle vs. Joe again I put "World Title" in quotes because in order for me to recognize it as a world title, I would have to be defended outside North America first |
| Tommy Brownell | Posted on 09/10/07 at 04:15:17 Isn't this the first time the TNA title has even been defended? Oh, right, the "All Titles On The Line" gimmick. I forgot. I wouldn't sweat it...when TNA had the NWA World title, it was frequently defended outside the USA, and not on TNA shows. Wouldn't be surprised if the TNA title isn't used the same way. |
| The Empress | Posted on 09/10/07 at 05:59:41 Check this hilarity: "We are excited to continue and expand our relationship with the world's fastest growing wrestling organization," said Kevin Kay, General Manager, Spike TV. "Increasing to two hours will help develop the popular stars on the series and increase the visibility of new characters."Hey, TNA, ROH called, they want their description back. Seriously, TNA may currently be bigger than ROH, but it ain't growing at all, so I'd say ROH is the fastest growing wrestling organization. |
| Tommy Brownell | Posted on 09/10/07 at 07:31:55 Impact is growing to two hours. Last week's Impact was the most watched in Impact history...thus, the audience is growing. And, to be a tad facetious, with all the hiring of ex-WWE guys, the roster's average height and weight has grown in the last year or so. Faster than ROH? I dunno. Not growing at all? Falsehood. |
| psz | Posted on 09/10/07 at 14:43:59 Does any of it matter because Russo and co. are still booking things? Not really ;-> TNA is getting more exposure. Yay, I guess. I can still rarely stomach a full hour. I will be interested to see a two hour, show, as maybe, just maybe... The X-Division can go back to being used right. Who the f*ck am I kidding :-P |
| Rick Garrard | Posted on 09/10/07 at 14:57:16On 09/10/07 at 07:31:55, Tommy Brownell wrote:Impact is growing to two hours.It wsa only the most watched hour in TNA history because almost every other program that usually airs on Thursdays is on their end of summer hiatus. Once "The Office", "My Name is Earl" and "Grey's Anatomy" begin with new episodes, TNA's ratings will plummet much like a sports entertainer's mainstream exposure does when they leave WWE for TNA. |
| Jake | Posted on 09/10/07 at 15:26:33On 09/10/07 at 14:57:16, Rick Garrard wrote:It wsa only the most watched hour in TNA history because almost every other program that usually airs on Thursdays is on their end of summer hiatus. Once "The Office", "My Name is Earl" and "Grey's Anatomy" begin with new episodes, TNA's ratings will plummet much like a sports entertainer's mainstream exposure does when they leave WWE for TNA.HOW DARE YOU MENTION GREY'S ANATOMY ALONGSIDE EARL AND THE OFFICE! THAT'S IT, I'M EMAILING OLIVER! |
| LillaThrilla | Posted on 09/10/07 at 15:38:08On 09/10/07 at 05:59:41, The Empress wrote:Hey, TNA, ROH called, they want their description back.Then ROH needs to get a national TV contract because otherwise the fact that they have a theoretically better product doesn't matter much as they lack the exposure to show it off. |
| Mr. Ken Kennedy | Posted on 09/10/07 at 15:41:21On 09/10/07 at 15:26:33, Jake wrote:The only thing good about Grey's is Katie Heigl |
| The TNM Members Champ | Posted on 09/10/07 at 23:03:18On 09/10/07 at 15:41:21, Mr. Ken Kennedy wrote:Technically, there are two good things about Grey's Anatomy if we are referring to Katherine Heigl as the reason. |
| Jake | Posted on 09/10/07 at 23:07:32On 09/10/07 at 23:03:18, The TNM Members Champ wrote:*rimshot* |
| Tommy Brownell | Posted on 09/11/07 at 04:12:21On 09/10/07 at 14:57:16, Rick Garrard wrote:No they won't. They'll settle back into that comfort zone they've been sitting at since they hit primetime. They'll float between a 0.8 and a 1.1. |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 09/11/07 at 04:18:39On 09/10/07 at 15:38:08, LillaThrilla wrote:A national TV contract for ROH? My goodness no! Cary Silkin may be rich, but he's not THAT rich. If ROH got a national TV contract at this point, it would go under financially within 2 years, and would start bouncing its checks significantly prior to that. ROH's business model thus far has been extremely conservative, with few risks taken. Enough people in the company were part of ECW that they know how easy it is to overexpand yourself. No, ROH's current focus should be on expanding its touring circuit, which it is doing this year by touring Japan, plus debuting in California and Las Vegas. More specifically, it needs to grow its core territory. It's all well and good to put on an occasional show in Minneapolis or Las Vegas, but the fact that their core business is still in the Northeast and Midwest limits their national market for PPVs, DVDs, and an eventual TV show. At the same time, ROH needs to promote its PPV business to support of its expanding territory. In 3-4 years, MAYBE they'll be ready to try live PPVs, and if they go well, a TV deal MIGHT be in the cards another year or so after that. Interestingly enough, it's difficult to predict how the PPVs will effect ROH's other shows in the longterm. Their stated aim is to put on great shows to attract new customers who will attend live events, but since they're PPVs, they also feel like the premier events in ROH, which makes the other shows seem less important. What I forsee happening is slow growth in normal events, with a more significant growth in attendence for PPV tapings. If ROH is smart, they'll regularly put a match onto their PPVs that is taped at another show to help encourage attendence at the non-PPV events. Since the PPVs are tape-delayed, it's also interesting to see how well Gabe does of keeping storylines consistent between PPVs and live events. But I'm rambling. Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |
| The TNM Members Champ | Posted on 09/11/07 at 04:29:22 Good point, Critic. Look at Jim Crockett Promotions from the 1980s for an example of what ROH shouldn't try. They definitely need to focus on their territory and niche and then try to expand. I don't really watch ROH or follow it too much, but it seems their business model works for them. Critic, are they profitable based on the current business model? If so, there's no reason to go to television unless somehow the network pays for all expenses. |
| The Empress | Posted on 09/11/07 at 04:49:48On 09/10/07 at 15:38:08, LillaThrilla wrote:Then ROH needs to get a national TV contract because otherwise the fact that they have a theoretically better product doesn't matter much as they lack the exposure to show it off.Like I said, no doubt TNA is currently bigger. I'm just saying ROH is growing faster; TNA is stagnant at the moment. As for ROH's expansion, or any wrestling company for that matter, it's all about the money. I thought about what's happened since the 80s, and it's simple. A wrestling company's success is pretty much directly proportionate to the amount of money funneled into it more often than not. This is why the WWF was able to breeze pas the NWA in the 80s, it's why WCW was able to blow the WWF away in the 90s, and it's why TNA is currently stagnant and ROH has to take it slowly. Sure, good or at least acceptable booking is a must else you end up like WCW did, but money is still the top factor in the whole damn thing. That's why no company, period, will ever be able to compete with WWE until someone is willing to outspend Vince McMahon. I heard Hulk Hogan is pushing to get $100 million together to do it, but that's still up in the air at the moment and so only time will tell. Until TNA has more money, they won't grow, period. |
| BULLY | Posted on 09/11/07 at 06:26:57 Poor TNA. So poor. How do they survive off the pennies from Panda Energy? |
| Tommy Brownell | Posted on 09/11/07 at 06:42:48 And simply amazing how they haven't grown a lick since they opened. SIGH. I mean, they don't even have a TV show...wait, they got one a few years ago. But its not even on primetime, though...what? It is? Well, its not like its two hours...whattya mean its going two hours? Okay, okay...but they only run shows in Orlando...huh? They've held PPVs outside of Orlando? PPVs that have actually drawn? Really? Still...its not like they have house shows. Whattya mean their schedule shows something like 90+ shows? FINE. Even with all that, they have ZERO market penetration. What? No way. TNA toys and DVDs can be found at your local Wal-Mart? REALLY? Okay, okay...but just because they've gone from a weekly PPV format to two hours of primetime TV a week, with monthly PPVs, house shows and PPVs held outside the Impact Zone, and merchandise on the shelves of the world's largest retailer doesn't mean they've exhibited any growth, or any ABILITY to grow. ... Wait. I think that's EXACTLY what it shows. Huh. Smarks DON'T know it all. |
| TOOL | Posted on 09/11/07 at 06:47:35 A larger piece of crap is still a piece of crap, though. |
| Tommy Brownell | Posted on 09/11/07 at 06:49:26 Oh, hey...I'm a guy that used to buy their PPVs but stopped, this despite my being the biggest Sting mark on the planet. But they've exhibited a ton of growth. Now if they only had a booker or something, instead of throwing darts at the wall to decide things, they might REALLY be something. |
| TOOL | Posted on 09/11/07 at 06:51:18 Y'know, if they threw darts at a wall full of angles and stuck with the angle it landed on consistently, the booking would probably be better just because of the consistency. |
| Tommy Brownell | Posted on 09/11/07 at 07:13:12 Aye. Its not the best idea to have half your roster be tweeners when you have face and heel entrances. And by "not the best idea" I really mean "idiotic". |
| The Empress | Posted on 09/11/07 at 08:12:27 I'm not saying TNA has never grown at all, I'm saying they aren't growing now. Sheesh. This is what I mean by being frustrated that I have to point out even the smallest details that common sense should be able to pick up on. Did I say "TNA has never grown at all at any point"? No. I said they are (which is a present tense word) stagnant and that ROH is growing faster than they are. Going from one hour to two isn't really growth. No, for growth, you need more interest in the product. We have a perfect indicator of their growth or lackthereof: ratings. Have their ratings gone up in the last year? Nope, not at all, they are still sitting at around the 1.0 mark. Sure, it hasn't gone down, which I suppose can be considered a win when you have a moron like Vince Russo booking the product, but it hasn't gone up either. ROH is growing and expanding, branching off to other territories, making money, and gaining exposure at a much bigger pace than TNA currently is. |
| Tommy Brownell | Posted on 09/11/07 at 15:14:00On 09/11/07 at 08:12:27, The Empress wrote:ROH is branching off to other territories...TNA is branching off into other territories. See their on the road PPVs and house shows. Last week's Impact was the most watched Impact to date...BECAUSE THE RATINGS WENT UP. I know arguing is easier when you ignore facts, but seriously. |
| The Empress | Posted on 09/11/07 at 21:29:50On 09/11/07 at 15:14:00, Tommy Brownell wrote:ROH is branching off to other territories...TNA is branching off into other territories. See their on the road PPVs and house shows.Except it wasn't, and they didn't. Impact scored a 1.0 rating. This nonsense that it was the most watched Impact ever was a myth started by TNA (or possibly the rating may have gone up by 0.01, which would be well within the normal range since no show has identical ratings from week to week). Nielsen's data completely destroys that myth. Seriously, you should probably have looked at the ratings data before arguing with me just for the sake of arguing. TNA's ratings have wobbled around the same point for almost the entirety of its run save for some gains at the very beginning. http://www.gerweck.net/news/1189269563.shtml http://www.gerweck.net/news/1189440475.shtml Now seriously, stop arguing just for the sake of arguing. In fact, if memory serves, the most watched Impact scored a 1.1, and has happened three or four times only. Still within the standard range. |
| Jake | Posted on 09/11/07 at 21:41:54On 09/11/07 at 21:29:50, The Empress wrote:Now seriously, stop arguing just for the sake of arguing.EMPRESS-CAT HAZ WARDN U! |
| The Empress | Posted on 09/11/07 at 21:43:09 It's not a warning, I'm just saying to cut it out. It's just stupid, really. |
| Unright | Posted on 09/11/07 at 22:34:55On 09/11/07 at 15:14:00, Tommy Brownell wrote:ROH is branching off to other territories...TNA is branching off into other territories. See their on the road PPVs and house shows.TNA's going to be running a show in the Nokia Arena in Tel Aviv, Isreal sometime in mid-November. If Kurt Angle defends the belt at that show, does it gain the "world" status? |
| Jake | Posted on 09/11/07 at 22:38:59On 09/11/07 at 22:34:55, Unright wrote:Only if they don't get blown up afterwards. ;D TERRORISM JOKES ON 9/11 FTW~! |
| TiLoBrown | Posted on 09/12/07 at 03:02:47On 09/11/07 at 08:12:27, The Empress wrote:I'm sorry, but I dont see how ratings = growth. Hell, ratings don't even = the number of people watching the product. I have 5 TV on my floor, no ratings box. Close to 10 in my entire house, none of them a ratings box. So like I've always said, fuck the stupid outdated ratings system. |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 09/12/07 at 04:57:58On 09/11/07 at 04:29:22, The TNM Members Champ wrote:Good point, Critic. Look at Jim Crockett Promotions from the 1980s for an example of what ROH shouldn't try. They definitely need to focus on their territory and niche and then try to expand. I don't really watch ROH or follow it too much, but it seems their business model works for them. Critic, are they profitable based on the current business model? If so, there's no reason to go to television unless somehow the network pays for all expenses.The last I heard, ROH was indeed turning a profit. A modest profit, mind you, but a profit nonetheless. From what I understand, that's quite remarkable for a promotion its size. And it's something that TNA, for all its growth in the past few years, has yet to achieve. Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |
| Tommy Brownell | Posted on 09/12/07 at 06:09:50On 09/11/07 at 21:41:54, Jake wrote:I'd sure hate to get shot in the face. |
| The Empress | Posted on 09/12/07 at 06:48:47On 09/12/07 at 04:57:58, Critic of the Dawn wrote:The last I heard, ROH was indeed turning a profit. A modest profit, mind you, but a profit nonetheless. From what I understand, that's quite remarkable for a promotion its size. And it's something that TNA, for all its growth in the past few years, has yet to achieve.Bingo. Even if you don't look to ratings when determining growth, I would say profits are another decent indicator. Last I heard, TNA is bleeding money. |
| TiLoBrown | Posted on 09/12/07 at 15:32:24On 09/12/07 at 06:48:47, The Empress wrote:Profit seems like a much better way to judge growth. |
| psz | Posted on 09/13/07 at 00:51:14 Profit's a good indicator usually... Obviously Profit means that they are doing well. If you turn a profit that means more than enough people show up to buy tickets, merch, and PPVs (where applicable) to pay all the bills and have enough to save up. However, what about a company that breaks even or loses a bit BUT is upping the production values, adding to the roster, going on more "road trips" to new venues, etc? I'd say that a company doing that is growing more than a company making a few bucks but doing shows from one location (Early ECW, TNA, etc) with the same 15-20 guys and the same equipment from five years ago. Kind of a moot point, though, as last I checked both ROH and TNA do shows from more than one location, and have been adding to rosters and venues. In that situation, then Yes, ROH is "doing better" as it is *ALSO* turning a profit, on top of everything else. |
| The Empress | Posted on 09/13/07 at 01:16:27 Yep, that's the only point I was trying to make. I really think TNA has too much ego going on right now. |