FORUM HOME > Wrestling > TNA
Vince Russo is RETARDED (Spoiler)

AnubisPosted on 02/28/07 at 10:03:16

So this Thursday, TOMKO is gonna get a win over SAMOA JOE. I don't care if Tomko even had an army helping him (he didn't, only Christian Cage with a chair), there is absolutely no reason why someone at Joe's level should be losing to someone like Tomko. This is like if the Gobblety Gooker beat Stone Cold Steve Austin at the height of Austin's career.

There are way too many "Dusty Finishes" in TNA these days. Dusty Rhodes eventually got fired as head booker back in the 80s for this kind of nonsensical booking, so I hope Vince Russo is fired soon. If he isn't gone by the end of the year, I doubt TNA will even make it to the next Presidential election.

Joe has already lost his momentum now, and if he doesn't actually outright win the belt at the PPV, he will pretty much have lost all credibility on the national scene. I think it was probably a mistake for him to leave ROH, because TNA is definitely a step down as long as Russo is in charge.
pszPosted on 02/28/07 at 14:08:10

It's things like this that made me hope Trump's pick would have been Joe
_



I never had a problem with Tomko. Never. He had size, he had a decent look, he just worked as a mid-level heel.

Emphasis: MID-LEVEL. Unless he got a nice, slow, monster push (which he's never gotten), there's no reason for him to beat main eventers. Top tiers, maybe, but not main eventers.

As I try to slog through TNA from time to time, I'm really REALLY starting to see all those things I hated about late WCW. Hell, I'm seeing some of the things I didn't like about Pre-Attitude WWF (Which, thankfully, still had cool stuff going on to balance it out)
Snabbit888Posted on 02/28/07 at 16:46:59

Yeah, TNA is an unorganized cesspool.  It's really sad.  It had so much potential, but the whole of the product is atrocious right now.  It's really hard to find a single positive thing that isn't, "Well they have this wrestler, and he has the potential to put on good matches!"
JakePosted on 02/28/07 at 17:10:11

On 02/28/07 at 10:03:16, Anubis wrote:So this Thursday, TOMKO is gonna get a win over SAMOA JOE.  I don't care if Tomko even had an army helping him (he didn't, only Christian Cage with a chair), there is absolutely no reason why someone at Joe's level should be losing to someone like Tomko.  This is like if the Gobblety Gooker beat Stone Cold Steve Austin at the height of Austin's career.

There are way too many "Dusty Finishes" in TNA these days.  Dusty Rhodes eventually got fired as head booker back in the 80s for this kind of nonsensical booking, so I hope Vince Russo is fired soon.  If he isn't gone by the end of the year, I doubt TNA will even make it to the next Presidential election.

Joe has already lost his momentum now, and if he doesn't actually outright win the belt at the PPV, he will pretty much have lost all credibility on the national scene.  I think it was probably a mistake for him to leave ROH, because TNA is definitely a step down as long as Russo is in charge.
You know, I want to disagree with you. But you have a point (for once).

If:
a) Tomko was getting a push.
b) Samoa Joe wasn't being pushed as a wrecking machine.

Then this could make sense, but neither is true, so it doesn't.

And yes, the Dusty finishes must go.
AllPowerfulGARTHPosted on 03/01/07 at 00:39:32

Okay, I really don't have anything to say about TNA's decision to put Tomko over Samoa Joe, but I have to point out how entertained I was by this thread title.

"Vince Russo is RETARDED (Spoiler)"

I don't think that's a spoiler to anyone, dude.
AnubisPosted on 03/01/07 at 00:41:52

LOL
AnubisPosted on 03/12/07 at 04:41:49

Well, looks like I may not be watching TNA for a while.  They had that piece of crap Christian Cage beat Samoa Joe.  Cage has been Champion way longer than he ever deserved to be.  Now not only has Joe lost his tough guy credibility and seem like a chump (Cage kicked out of the Muscle Buster and pinned him just by using the ropes), but the NWA World Heavyweight Title is probably devalued further than it has ever has been at this point.

Seriously, Vince Russo needs to get fired before TNA goes the way of WCW.
rey619Posted on 03/12/07 at 11:56:07

Well, being pinned while he had Cage in the chokehold is one of the most credible ways of having Joe lose, in my opinion. Joe has always come off as a monster, but not necessarily the sharpest wrestler. I remember Nigel McGuinness beating Joe for the ROH Pure Title in the exact way.

Cage kicking out of the MuscleBuster is another thing, one that probably should have been avoided.
AnubisPosted on 03/12/07 at 21:18:26

Well the problem isn't with Joe losing, it's with who he's losing to.  Christian Cage just isn't credible as a main eventer or as a Champion.  If it had been Sting or Kurt Angle or AJ Styles or Christopher Daniels, I wouldn't be complaining.  Think is, Cage is boring and is getting way more than he deserves.  Cage is a lot like Paul Roma, really, the only difference being WCW was never dumb enough to hand Roma a World Heavyweight Title.

Cage is good in the midcard, in the tag team division, or maybe even the X Division.  As a main event level wrestler, though, I just don't buy it.  His ring work is bland, his mic work is cheesy, and he just isn't credible.
AllPowerfulGARTHPosted on 03/13/07 at 00:05:05

I rather get the impression that most TNA fans would disagree with you on the subject of Christian Cage's credibility.

At any rate, from my perspective, having him go over Samoa Joe -- in about as by-the-skin-of-the-teeth way as possible -- makes sense, as this now allows TNA to build up Joe's eventual title win. Wouldn't it make more sense to build up to Joe winning the title and Cage suffering his first pinfall/submission loss in TNA for more than one month?
AnubisPosted on 03/13/07 at 04:16:32

On 03/13/07 at 00:05:05, AllPowerfulGARTH wrote:I rather get the impression that most TNA fans would disagree with you on the subject of Christian Cage's credibility.

At any rate, from my perspective, having him go over Samoa Joe -- in about as by-the-skin-of-the-teeth way as possible -- makes sense, as this now allows TNA to build up Joe's eventual title win. Wouldn't it make more sense to build up to Joe winning the title and Cage suffering his first pinfall/submission loss in TNA for more than one month?
Actually, no, I don't think it'd make more sense.  Samoa Joe has already been built up properly.  He had a monster streak going better than Goldberg's, a great feud with Kurt Angle, and wins over all the top contenders.  They had something great going, then screwed it up by having Joe lose two in a row, first to Tomko and then to Cage.  Given how Joe was built up as a monster, the way these two losses went down is just absurd.  You need time and effort to build someone up to stop a monster like that.  Angle was properly built up.  Cage, however, was not, and Tomko sure as bloody Hell wasn't.  Given how Joe was previously built up, it would have taken a taser or something equally nasty for this to make any sort of sense, especially due to Cage's lack of credibility.  Basically, it boils down to Tomko and Cage being undeserving.  The other point to make, though, is that Cage has "won" every encounter with Joe up to this point, figuratively speaking, so especially after losing to Tomko, the only way to keep Joe looking like a monster would be to win the NWA World Heavyweight Title.

Good grief, and people complained when Jeff Jarrett hogged the championship.  Now we can only wish we were still living in the Jarrett Era.  Hell, Jarrett was the last remotely credible NWA World Heavyweight Champion, thanks to TNA butchering Sting by having him be a transitional champion to Abyss.

Basically, TNA is at a low point right now.  They keep hiring more and more people, which is insane given how little air time they get, and while buffing up the roster, they keep pushing people who just aren't deserving instead of pushing those who are the the best of the best.  Such a waste.  TNA has ten times more wrestling talent than WWE, and yet it's all wasted because of this retarded booking.
Rick GarrardPosted on 03/13/07 at 04:43:09

TNA was better when the roster was WAY smaller back when they were at the Asylum in Nashville... and they had a real wrestling ring, not some ring they stole from AAA in Mexico.  That being said...

Hell, Jarrett was the last remotely credible NWA World Heavyweight Champion, thanks to TNA butchering Sting by having him be a transitional champion to Abyss
Sting was a how many time transitional champ for Ric Flair?  That's what I thought.  ;)  Sting only ever got the NWA/WCW World Title in the first place because Flair carried him through many quality matches.  Of course, this was before Sting lost his smile and went into the rafters for over a year only to become the porch dog that can stick it (Thanks, Hulk).

At least TNA was trying to be creative back when they gave Ron Killings the World Title the first time.  Since TNA took over booking the NWA World Title on June 19, 2002 when they crowned Ken Shamrock after stripping Dan Severn, only 3 non-WWE talents have held the title.  AJ Styles, Sting and Abyss.  For TNA to survive and grow, they need to push some of their own home grown talent and let them have a run with the title.  Basically their next champ, should have no WWE experience.... and Joe's Jakked jobbing doesn't count as WWE experience, whereas Ron Killings run as K-Kwik with RoadDog does.

It's really amazing when you look at it, that TNA has a glass ceiling for it's OWN talent, yet if you walk in the door with WWE experience, you automatically are a main eventer, no matter how bad you were in WWE.  It's crazy.
AnubisPosted on 03/13/07 at 06:00:57

Hey, be fair to the Stinger, he's always been a pretty strong main eventer.  Oh, and he's never actually been a transitional champion for Ric Flair; in fact, he only lost it to Flair himself once (at the end of his first reign), after having held the championship (which he also won from Flair) for four months.

That's not to say Sting was never a transitional champion, of course . . . Sting lost his third championship (won from Big Van Vader) to Big Van Vader after only six days . . . Sting was then a transitional champion for himself, winning his fourth championship (won from Hollywood Hogan) and losing it and then winning his fifth championship (won from Hollywood Hogan), so that won is kinda quirky . . . His sixth championship (won from Diamond Dallas Page), of course, ended on the same night it began, but since that one was booked by Vince Russo, it only demonstrates by point that VINCE RUSSO IS RETARDED . . .

I've always loved Sting's work, he just has that certain something that makes him so damn awesome in the main event.  Also, the only Sting I've ever known as a full-time wrestling fan is the "Crow" Sting, though I've gone back to see his previous work since then.  He's pretty good, much better than Christian Cage could ever hope to be.
ZedjaPosted on 03/13/07 at 08:02:03

I liked Sting better before he adopted his Crow personality, after that he became just a Meh moment for me.
phudjiePosted on 03/13/07 at 12:35:53

That's not to say Sting was never a transitional champion, of course . . . Sting lost his third championship (won from Big Van Vader) to Big Van Vader after only six days . . . Sting was then a transitional champion for himself, winning his fourth championship (won from Hollywood Hogan) and losing it and then winning his fifth championship (won from Hollywood Hogan), so that won is kinda quirky . . . His sixth championship (won from Diamond Dallas Page), of course, ended on the same night it began, but since that one was booked by Vince Russo, it only demonstrates by point that VINCE RUSSO IS RETARDED . . .
.....I'm not really sure that I consider any of Sting's WCW Title reigns as transitional - to me a transitional champion would mean beind a bridge between two different eras (I'm not sure that's the word I want to use but there it is) - Iron Sheik was a transitional champion getting the title off of Backalnd and onto Hogan, Backland himself was a transitional champion getting the title of Hart and onto Diesel, to me - Sting's victories and losses (to Vader, Flair & Hogan) were part of the story arc of what was going on at the top of the card.....
MatteusPosted on 03/13/07 at 22:31:33

I'd say a transitional champion is more along the lines of a wrestler (Wrestler A) whose sole purpose in winning the title is to drop the title to Wrestler B without having the original champion (Wrestler C) have to lose or drop the title to Wrestler B.

Example?  I'd say Bob Backlund was a transitional champion when he beat Bret Hart for the title at Survivor Series and lost it to Diesel days later.  Sgt. Slaughter beat Ultimate Warror in January of '91 to win the WWE Title and lost it to Hulk Hogan in March at WrestleMania... so Ultimate Warrior didn't have to lose heat to Hogan.  

That's why when WWE was saying Edge would be a transitional champ if he lost to John Cena (who he BEAT for the belt) was stupid... you can't be a transitional champion to the same person you won it from.  There's no TRANSITION to anything!
Rick GarrardPosted on 03/14/07 at 02:14:27

On 03/13/07 at 08:02:03, Zedja wrote:I liked Sting better before he adopted his Crow personality, after that he became just a Meh moment for me.
exactly the same thing for me as well.  Going from cool colorful beach surfer dude Sting to dark pouting Eeyore Sting really soured me on his in-ring talent.

And in Edge's case... he wasn't transitional, he was this generation's Tommy Rich!  :)  A one hit wonder if you will.
JustinPosted on 03/14/07 at 03:46:08

But Edge is a 2 time champ ;)
pszPosted on 03/14/07 at 13:22:56

And now WWE has no clue what to do with him.

No valet, can't be the stereotypical Heel.

No batshit-crazy-obsessed-over-the-title, can't be the OTHER stereotypical Heel.

Feuding with his tag team partner who wasn't really a partner until they realised they didn't have anything going on with either of them...

That's it! Adam Copeland TO TNA!
(Maybe not)
TiLoBrownPosted on 03/14/07 at 16:56:23

Hes in a feud. He hasn't been without a feud in lord knows how long. And they don't know what to do with him? Right, love the net...
pszPosted on 03/15/07 at 00:46:52

Who's he feuding with? A guy they threw him in a tag team with because... They'd already done Edge/Cena to death. (Reason for feud: Wanting WWE Title)

So he feuds with HHH/HBK because... Hell, why not?

That turns into a feud with his tag team partner because... HHH is injured. Makes sense to me.

Yeah, I can see how those are well thought-out feuds he's involved with.

Why not say that Balls has a good run going with a great story line, what with not being involved with the New Breed/Oldschool storyline even though he was the one getting the cross-arms-salute after facing Kevin Thorne.

Or hey, MNM randomly attacking HBK/Cena because Edge didn't feel like fighting is a SERIOUSLY planned out plot there.

Sorry, some guys may be on TV, but that hardly means that they have a plan for them.
AnubisPosted on 03/15/07 at 03:24:21

Which is amazing since Edge is one of the five most talented guys in WWE.  He should be easy to write for.
Rick GarrardPosted on 03/15/07 at 13:35:31

Ive got the feeling that Edge is injured right now and not telling anyone about it.  He's ducked out of a LOT of matches lately for oddball reasons, which is a good way to keep him on TV with heel heat so when he's ready for WrestleMania, he can make his return.
JakePosted on 03/15/07 at 14:30:46

On 03/15/07 at 13:35:31, Rick Garrard wrote:Ive got the feeling that Edge is injured right now and not telling anyone about it.  He's ducked out of a LOT of matches lately for oddball reasons, which is a good way to keep him on TV with heel heat so when he's ready for WrestleMania, he can make his return.
Source: PWInsider.com

Incase you are wondering why Edge has not worked a match in the past several weeks, it is because he is injured. The former WWE Champion suffered a broken jaw while working a match with Rob Van Dam a few weeks ago.

The plan is to hold Edge out until WrestleMania 23 where he will compete in the Money In The Bank ladder match.
TiLoBrownPosted on 03/15/07 at 14:31:14

Yea, you know. Since you don't like what happening. Its stupid. I get ya.
Rick GarrardPosted on 03/16/07 at 02:32:22

on Today at 6:35am, Rick Garrard wrote:
Ive got the feeling that Edge is injured right now and not telling anyone about it.  He's ducked out of a LOT of matches lately for oddball reasons, which is a good way to keep him on TV with heel heat so when he's ready for WrestleMania, he can make his return.      

Quote:
Source: PWInsider.com

Incase you are wondering why Edge has not worked a match in the past several weeks, it is because he is injured. The former WWE Champion suffered a broken jaw while working a match with Rob Van Dam a few weeks ago.

The plan is to hold Edge out until WrestleMania 23 where he will compete in the Money In The Bank ladder match.
In the word of Ron Simmons....

...

...


DAMN!


Well what'dya know... I nailed that one right on the head.  
91Posted on 03/20/07 at 23:02:39

Sorry, not doing anything with Edge? Did I dream the gradual feud that's been building for the last several weeks with Orton (and which I think has been really well done by the way)? Dude, seriously.

If someone had said "They don't know what to do with Chris Benoit right now" then sure, I might have granted you (showing up once every fortnight, if I'm lucky, and barely getting a mention despite being U.S. champion and tapping out clean to Cena in just over five minutes). But Edge? He's probably the guy I'm enjoying the most right now.
pszPosted on 03/20/07 at 23:25:57

When I wrote that the Orton/Edge feud hadn't exactly started. Hell, I'm still trying to remember exactly why Edge hated DX so much :-P

I think the injury to HHH derailed one feud, the injury to Edge slowed down another. In HINDSIGHT it makes sense. At the time... Edge (and Orton) seemed to be just... There.



As for Benoit, I concur completely. Man goes from World Champ to... Jobber on the "rival" brand?
Rick GarrardPosted on 03/21/07 at 02:49:39

Hopefully the RAW guys job at the Smackdown taping tonight in the trading jobs wrestlemania reversal shows this week.