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Voodoo Kin Mafia?

Snabbit888Posted on 11/17/06 at 06:36:12

This kind of nonsense is the reason why TNA will NEVER be a real competitor to WWE unelss they change the way they do things.  Let's keep mentioning the competition.  It's always a good idea to help get your product over by constantly mentioning your competition.  TNA deserves to fail.  This has Vince Russo nonsense all over it.

I mean, we could focus really hard on making our product great, but nah.  Let's constantly bring attention to Vince, HHH, and HBK.

What a waste of time.  TNA has some good stuff going, but as an entire entity, what a worthless company.
AnubisPosted on 11/17/06 at 11:39:39

I kinda like it.  It's similar to the D-X raid on WCW, but a bit more interesting.
ZedjaPosted on 11/17/06 at 13:27:32

This seems to be TNA's new rule. "Let's not care about what we are doing, but instead lets focus on whatever everyone else is doing"
Snabbit888Posted on 11/17/06 at 15:46:33

On 11/17/06 at 11:39:39, Anubis wrote:I kinda like it. It's similar to the D-X raid on WCW, but a bit more interesting.
It's "interesting," but it makes the angle all about the competition.  It makes me think, "Oooh... they're calling out Vince!  I'm gonna watch RAW to see if they respond!"  Instead of trying to help themselves, they're trying to hurt WWE.  And the angle is gonna fall flat on its face.  TNA does good things... this is certainly not one of them.
JustinPosted on 11/18/06 at 03:54:59

What would be funny is if they did a re-make of the DX invades WCW angle & show up at a WWE event. Then when Vince finds out, instead of having security block the entrances, he invites them in to show that he's not worried about their "war".
HugeRockStar760Posted on 11/18/06 at 04:29:37

I disagree about it being interesting. It's a retread of something truly original when DX went to the arena that a Nitro was happening. This isn't exactly cutting edge for TNA at all.

Same thing for the flag burning segment by LAX. It's been done before by the WWE, and that wasn't even interesting either.

TNA has some great athletes. They need to focus on the wrestling to truly be different and an actual competitor to the WWE. At this point, the only competition to the WWE is from outside the wrestling industry and that is UFC.
AnubisPosted on 11/18/06 at 09:53:50

Seven-year rule applies for both stunts.  In addition, I liked the Petey Williams face turn, I actually didn't see it coming until they told him to start the fire.  With Christy Hemme wanting more than an interviewer role, I can see Williams and Christy getting paired up, and I like it.  Williams has been in angle limbo since the end of Team Canada, so I'm glad to see them using him at long last.

I like the that they're going to war.  I love anything that's anti-McMahon, of course.  I seriously doubt they're going to switch viewers over, unless they do something stupid like when Schiavone revealed that Mick Foley was gonna win the belt.  That's not even possible, really, more like the other way around.

Also, the war angle is a small one, and even for those who don't like it, there are plenty of other great things in TNA.  The in-ring work is top notch (which is most important), Kurt Angle and Samoa Joe are gonna have a great program, Sting is a strong and proven NWA World Heavyweight Champion, Jeff Jarrett is on the back burner, and even the people we thought were washed up (i.e. Kevin Nash) are doing good entertaining work.
HugeRockStar760Posted on 11/18/06 at 16:30:06

TNA needs to stop mentioning the competition because it is becoming sort of embarassing considering the WWE refuses to even acknowledge they exist.

They are not at the level the WWE is. They need to worry about their product and writing original content; not rewriting past WWE storylines.

It doesn't matter if the same angle happened more than seven years ago. It doesn't change the fact it's not original. If TNA wants to be true competition, they have to be different. Hiring Russo isn't the greatest idea because I don't think he is capable of writing anything original anymore.
americamamushiPosted on 11/18/06 at 18:50:33

I don't think that a few rehashes here and there are that big of a problem.

Like rehashing the the old Randy Savage "in demand free agent" gimmick with Roode... except how Roode could've had any number of great managers... and then... got Traci... and then didn't even wrestle on the PPV.  Of course, Randy Savage ended up with Miss Elizabeth at the end of his version, but at least, if memory serves, they actually portrayed her as benefiting his career.
HugeRockStar760Posted on 11/18/06 at 21:11:09

On 11/18/06 at 18:50:33, americamamushi wrote:I don't think that a few rehashes here and there are that big of a problem.

Like rehashing the the old Randy Savage "in demand free agent" gimmick with Roode... except how Roode could've had any number of great managers... and then... got Traci... and then didn't even wrestle on the PPV.  Of course, Randy Savage ended up with Miss Elizabeth at the end of his version, but at least, if memory serves, they actually portrayed her as benefiting his career.
They should've had So Cal Val be his new manager. She has the sweet Miss Elizabeth type of personality to her that would've contrasted with Roode's heelish attitude. Similar to Elizabeth/Savage.

However, TNA already botched that storyline so it is pointless now.
JustinPosted on 11/18/06 at 21:34:58

They did the same thing with Bam Bam Bigelow being a hot free agent & then saddled him with Oliver Humperdink. After a short push the WWF did basically what TNA is doing with Roode. They just picked a bad time for his gimmick since they creatively seem to have nothing for him.
Rick GarrardPosted on 11/18/06 at 22:18:55

no storylines are original, just the characters and how they react in them are.  See this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/36_Dramatic_Situations

It's also a good place to look for potential storylines when one gets stuck booking in TNM.

TNA should promote that they are "PRO WRESTLING" not "Sports Entertainment".  That would probably turn more heads than just about any other thing they could do at this point, and they could do this without mentioning WWE even if it is a HUGE dig at WWE ala the ring intro from SD:  "Gregory Helms, the longest reigning champion in sports entertainment".
AnubisPosted on 11/18/06 at 22:25:48

On 11/18/06 at 21:11:09, HugeRockStar760 wrote:They should've had So Cal Val be his new manager.
For once, we're in agreement.

Not only would I love to see more Val, but I also think she has the talent to deserve more air time based on what little I've heard about her. Any which way, she's also the best looking woman in TNA, and the best part is, her breasts are real (if they're not, they certainly look real, unlike every other woman in TNA)! That right there earns her my respect.

Honestly, I don't like Bobby Roode that much. He's bland. I think the whole angle is a flop. Put Christy Hemme with Petey Williams and put So Cal Val with someone like . . . I dunno, but someone. Then we'd have some decent managers/valets in there.

I would say they should add women's wrestling, but with only one hour, that's not feasible at the moment unless they wanted to bring over Mariko Yoshida and Sarah Stock.
HugeRockStar760Posted on 11/19/06 at 02:04:45

I miss the good ol' days of wrestling when there were real managers like James J. Dillon, Bobby Heenan, Freddie Blassie, Gary Hart, Slick, Skandar Akbar, and many more.

Nowadays, the pairing of random WWE diva to WWE face wrestler like Carlito is common place. There is no rhyme or reason to anything.

Rick GarrardPosted on 11/19/06 at 02:55:47

Double A Estrada is quite a force in the managerial ranks of today's WWE ya know.  :)
HugeRockStar760Posted on 11/19/06 at 04:21:44

You're right. Estrada is great and he's basically the only reason Umaga is somewhat over.
TrancePosted on 11/19/06 at 16:18:05

On 11/17/06 at 15:46:33, Snabbit888 wrote:

It's "interesting," but it makes the angle all about the competition. It makes me think, "Oooh... they're calling out Vince! I'm gonna watch RAW to see if they respond!" Instead of trying to help themselves, they're trying to hurt WWE. And the angle is gonna fall flat on its face. TNA does good things... this is certainly not one of them.
I agree, and for years, Vinne Mac has acted and behaved like his promotion was the only promotion in the history of wrestling.... like there WAS no professional wrestling before him or his dad.
TrancePosted on 11/19/06 at 16:22:22

On 11/19/06 at 02:04:45, HugeRockStar760 wrote:I miss the good ol' days of wrestling when there were real managers like James J. Dillon, Bobby Heenan, Freddie Blassie, Gary Hart, Slick, Skandar Akbar, and many more.

Nowadays, the pairing of random WWE diva to WWE face wrestler like Carlito is common place. There is no rhyme or reason to anything.

Hell fucking yeah! Back in the day, wrestling was about WRESTLING, not about plugging the latest video game. I swear to fucking God, all WWE has become, is one big commercial for either a new video game, action figure, book, or movie.
HugeRockStar760Posted on 11/19/06 at 18:23:41

I just ordered a compilation DVD of 13 volumes of the greatest moments of Jim Crockett Promotions (1985-1989, although 1989 was under the ownership of Time Warner). $130 for 26 DVDs.
Rick GarrardPosted on 11/20/06 at 03:53:16

HRS, I'm sorry.  ;)  Beware of some poorly booked stuff because of guys coming and going without warning.  But then again, there are some really awesome angles that the smaller crowds would almost riot for during the same time period.  And to answer your question from another post elsewhere on the boards.... Alyssa is quite attractive and VERY short in height.  I didn't even recognize her at first, until someone told me who she was.  And unlike so many celeb types, she was very talkative and friendly to those of us there.
HugeRockStar760Posted on 11/20/06 at 04:02:14

The match/angle/interview listings for each volume are actually very impressive. It was compiled by Bob Barnett, if that name rings any bells (agent for Vampiro, regular on RSPW, etc).

It tends to lean highly on Ric Flair, The Four Horsemen, Jim Cornette and The Midnight Express. However, not a bad thing at all.
Rick GarrardPosted on 11/20/06 at 04:15:27

Trust me, I am more than familiar with Barnett from the early days of the old AOL Wrestling Grandstand area (back when Mark Mero and Brian Pillman each had their own forums there and posted rather frequently).  Barnett and Dr. Mike "Really I'm not lieing this time honestly" Lano used to irritate a lot of us that posted there, including RoH's very own Gabe Sapolsky.  :)
HugeRockStar760Posted on 11/20/06 at 04:25:16

Well, hopefully the material he is sending me is good quality because I paid good money for it. He's definitely opinionated though.
Rick GarrardPosted on 11/26/06 at 04:16:20

something I find very interesting about the VKM (yes that is how TNA abbreviates it on their very own website)... it shares the sames initials as one Vincent Kennedy McMahon.  Someone at TNA is implying that the McMahons are involved with familial voodoo and that they are mafiosos....  only would Jarrett allow something so childish.
JustinPosted on 11/26/06 at 04:39:20

Not only Jarrett, Rick, I'm sure Russo helped
Rick GarrardPosted on 11/26/06 at 05:18:30

They really should name a character "dumbass head writer" ;) Then no one would know whether they'd be poking fun at themselves, Stephanie, or anyone else.

Having said that... they could always do like on the TV ad a few years back... where the guy pronounces "Dumas" as Dumbass... when they hire Amy "Lita" Dumas.
HugeRockStar760Posted on 11/26/06 at 08:46:33

On 11/26/06 at 04:16:20, Rick Garrard wrote:something I find very interesting about the VKM (yes that is how TNA abbreviates it on their very own website)... it shares the sames initials as one Vincent Kennedy McMahon.  Someone at TNA is implying that the McMahons are involved with familial voodoo and that they are mafiosos....  only would Jarrett allow something so childish.
It's such a stupid storyline. No one really cares about The James Gang. To have them as your "invaders" against the WWE is just a big joke I think.

TNA will never amount to anything until they focus on their product instead of practically begging for the WWE to acknowledge them. How bushleague is it of TNA to basically promote their competitor's pay per view?
CarlzillaPosted on 11/26/06 at 08:59:02

I'd like TNA to become a viable competitor, as I'd love to have something wrestling related that I could talk about without alienating the casual watcher...just try to tell someone about how awesome this match between Mike Quackenbush and Claudio Castagnoli was...you just get blank stares. But, as long as TNA sticks with it's half wrestling/half sports entertainment feel, it's just not going to go anywhere. They need to pick one side of the fence and then build a base on it. Until then I'll stick to alienating casual fans with my puroresu love, and talk about American indy feds.
Rick GarrardPosted on 11/26/06 at 14:50:11

I remember a time when one would mention the names Raven, Taz, Sabu, Sandman and Tommy Dreamer and people would have this puzzled, quizzical look on their face.  Then you'd show them a tape of an ECW SportsChannel show and they'd be hooked, because it was a truly innovative style.
pszPosted on 11/26/06 at 16:07:22

It kinda helped that they weren't forced into < 15 minute matches due to live TV constraints :-P
Rick GarrardPosted on 11/26/06 at 21:36:00

actually live TV doesn't currently constrain them to less than 15 minutes per matc.  It's just producers that are afraid to go away from the WWE's proven formula for TV wrestling sports entertainment.  And the fact that Neilsen Ratings judge by the quarter hour nowadays.

I'd venture to say that if they had one night on ECW where they put the World Title match first, and let the match go for the whole 60 minutes, the next week, they would see a sizeable spike in the ratings.
pszPosted on 11/26/06 at 22:12:50

So.... RVD vs Sabu vs Punk in a three-way dance ladder match?


;->
Rick GarrardPosted on 11/26/06 at 22:57:59

there would be nothing wrong with a 60 minute draw with the three of them and some ladders.  :)

It would harken back to the time limit draw feud of RVD vs Jerry Lynn.
HugeRockStar760Posted on 11/27/06 at 01:06:59

Remember when 60 minute time limit draws were more common at house shows?

You don't see too many draws of any kind any more. Draws can be used to further feuds along and get wrestlers over. Look at the Sting/Flair match from Clash of the Champions. That did a lot for Sting's career.
JustinPosted on 11/27/06 at 01:34:01

That match basically made Sting's career.... what about the Flair/Barry Windham draw classics ... but alas.. thanks to today's ADD driven booking style, the crowd would start chanting "boring" after about 15 minutes if it's not a spot fest
Rick GarrardPosted on 11/27/06 at 02:14:37

actually that is so not true, as long as you continue to tell a story during the match, which is something that has been lost on this generation, mainly because of the refusal to keep on selling throughout a match.  Of course, if you want someone to keep on selling for you and they forget, a stiff shot to the body part that is supposed to hurt sometimes makes them remember.

Selling moves is a lost art thanks to the televised 3 minute match.
AnubisPosted on 11/28/06 at 00:21:28

On 11/26/06 at 22:12:50, psz wrote:So.... RVD vs Sabu vs Punk in a three-way dance ladder match?


;->
I'd tune in to see that!
pszPosted on 11/28/06 at 02:03:51

Another 60 minute time limit draw (Preferably at Wrestlemania/Summer Slam from NYC or Philly or Montreal) would be RVD/Sabu vs Hardyz.

The draw would put BOTH teams over, and the locale would be pop-city for them.


That and I like the occasional spot-fests :-P
JustinPosted on 11/29/06 at 23:29:11

Now TNA has on their website that VKM (the team not the man) have accepted The Hardyz open challenge for D2D. So now it's "let's promote the other guy's PPV so people will buy it to see if we show up"?

That & they're saying that next week Ron Killings will have comments about John Cena on their website as well.
AnubisPosted on 11/29/06 at 23:32:37

This is gonna be either pure genius or pure stupidity.
91Posted on 11/30/06 at 00:17:55

I saw the comparisons to the DX/Nitro skit - that angle had the added advantage of actually doing it where WCW fans would see it (and bear in mind WCW was outdrawing the WWE at the time) so would have garnered some interest from those who weren't already watching Raw on a weekly basis.

The VKM angle however is pointless as the only people who are going to notice it are a) those who watch TNA already (and thus won't attract any new viewers there) and b) those who read a lot of stuff on the internet (which largely amounts to those who watch TNA already again).

Doing angles about the competition that won't even register with those who don't already watch the show not only doesn't increase viewers and potentially had the added effect of making some TNA viewers go "I think I'll watch Raw for one to see if they respond". And, as previously mentioned, now they're hyping December to Dismember in the process. Brilliant. Unless they ACTUALLY turn up in some capacity and get themselves seen by the WWE/ECW fans, that serves to be totally counter productive**. What makes it more embarassing is that you know the WWE won't ever bother to acknowledge this (unless they're idiots).

I can only surmise this with two possibilities - either TNA is secretly funded by Vince McMahon and the WWE, and by creating a unique brand of wrestling that is drawing its own seperate viewers to make money, whilst at the same time having given it a few years before pulling the trigger on any cross-promotion activity to totally convince the fans that the two companies are seperate entities (the time Abyss brought them balloons doesn't count) before using the Outlaws as a method of promoting each others shows to help draw big numbers (think of the attention an actual Raw/Nitro invasion would have done during the height of the Monday night wars) and thus putting money in Vinces pocket and reassuredly making him the smartest man alive.

Or, more likely, Vince Russo is just a tool.

(**Suffice to say, all of this post can be duly withdrawn if the VKM do do something at D2D, or whenever, and actually do help draw attention to TNA with the masses)
AnubisPosted on 11/30/06 at 00:48:10

Or it could be what I said: Vince Russo is a plant working to destroy TNA for Vince McMahon.

You gotta admit, these ideas look like pure sabotage of TNA to anyone with half a brain. It's either one of the things you said, or exactly what I said.

If the VKM does show up at the PPV, though, and aren't promptly thrown out, I think that would confirm that it's a huge setup from the beginning.
pszPosted on 11/30/06 at 02:08:57

Not necessarily... VinnyMac has, in the past, said that he'd welcome a "rival" doing that because "Which show are you going to watch? The one with half it's staff missing, or the one where *EVERYONE* shows up?"

(Re: HHH's questioning of Vinny when asked what to do if WCW did the same. Vinny's answer: Invite them to the ring).

Think about it: Free Superstars showing up :-P

Edit: I always mangle the word "Necessarily" :-P
Rick GarrardPosted on 11/30/06 at 04:05:26

91 said it way better than I was going to.  :)

And I fully agree with what he said.  I really hope it's the former (the genius of the Vinces) and not the latter (Russo being a sabotage tool).

It would be funny if the box with the Spirit Squad addressed to OVW in Louisville, somehow found it's way to TNA in Orlando instead.  How great of an interpromotional angle would THAT be?  Unfortunately with TNA taping so much in advance, they can't take advantage of using a box marked "OVW/Louisville, KY", which they have to have a box that looks like it, since it is the typical back stage box one finds.
Snabbit888Posted on 11/30/06 at 04:25:31

"TNA tag team Voodoo Kin Mafia, BG and Kip James, have publically accepted the Hardy Boyz' open challenge to face them at this Sunday's ECW December to Dismember pay-per-view. An article on TNA's website notes that even though the open challenge was answered by another tag team they still accept the challenge and want to make it a three-way match. Of course this is just a storyline because the two promotions would be unable to crossover."

LOL.  God TNA is pathetic.  It's just getting sad at this point.
Rick GarrardPosted on 11/30/06 at 06:32:24

It would be funny if while TNA was so damned busy being hellbent on competing with the unacknowledging WWE, if a couple other indies would surpass them on the national TV stage.
91Posted on 11/30/06 at 18:26:37

On 11/30/06 at 00:48:10, Anubis wrote:Or it could be what I said: Vince Russo is a plant working to destroy TNA for Vince McMahon.
That would make him fairly toolish as well, though I suppose on a different level from the one I was implying.
UnrightPosted on 12/06/06 at 19:15:27

On 11/30/06 at 00:48:10, Anubis wrote:Or it could be what I said: Vince Russo is a plant working to destroy TNA for Vince McMahon.
Hmm.. Maybe Vince McMahon's feud with God was due to Vince Russo infiltrating and destroying from within the Ring of Glory fed.

Have to go check the timeline and adjust my tinfoil hat...