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Wrestling Society X on MTV last night

Rick GarrardPosted on 01/27/07 at 19:30:38

Apparently no one else caught it.  on at 11pm ET for 1/2 hour.  6-Pac vs Vampiro for the title next week.  They did a mini rumble match with weapons on all four sides of the ring and 2 contracts above the ring to determine that it would be 6-Pac vs Vampiro.

This could be a good product, if it weren't for MTV's shitty production quality.  Even Court Bauer's MLW with it's piss poor lightning and ECW style camera work was better in production.
UnrightPosted on 01/28/07 at 02:14:53

MTV's website says it premieres Jan 30th at 10:30pm.

http://www.mtv.com/#/ontv/dyn/wsx/series.jhtml

The "Cast" doesn't look half bad. Some recognizable names to the average fan, some good indie talent that can only benefit from exposure, some unknowns that could be decent.

Too bad about the shitty production quality, that can kill a fed.
Rick GarrardPosted on 01/28/07 at 02:56:00

their website per last night's show is

http://wsx.mtv.com

just an FYI on that.  Caught while flipping channels looking for the free NBA through this Sunday on DirecTV
UnrightPosted on 01/28/07 at 05:31:20

eh.. The links right to the link I already posted.  Although it's shorter and easier to remember.  ;D
TiLoBrownPosted on 01/28/07 at 16:58:20

I saw it, makes me want to stop watching wrestling
JakePosted on 01/28/07 at 19:58:46

My only complaint was the ring announcer, running around the ring and screaming in the microphone. Dude, we get it, you're "extreme".

Extremely crappy. ;D
wizardneedsfoodPosted on 01/29/07 at 18:57:08

Anything that gets Matt Sydal and Jimmy Jacobs on my TV is a good thing. I just can't believe it only took Teddy one show to start botching spots.
Kings_Of_WrestlingPosted on 01/31/07 at 07:19:30

I watched it tonight... and jeez... was that a fuckin' dumb show or what? This show is for crack heads w/ ADD. It moves faster than Impact. Its cut & pasted so much you can't even enjoy it. The effects are so shitty w/ the explosions... it made me wanna slap the nearest person to me. 30 Minutes for a TV show on MTV (that has 15 mins of commercials per show alone...) is to short. I hope this project gets run down by anyone. Cuz' its just a waste of money and time.
AnubisPosted on 01/31/07 at 09:24:25

I dunno, I kinda liked it.  It reminded me of old ECW, not because of quality (good grief no way is it that good), but because of the atmosphere.

The show was short, but they are doing what TNA should be doing, focusing on the in-ring product, at least so far.  The matches were pretty good.  Jack Evans is freaking amazing beyond belief, making AJ Styles look like an amateur in the air and making Rob Van Dam look like a mat wrestler.  Matt Sydal was pretty good, too.  Okay, Sean Waltman still sucks beyond anything imaginable, but thankfully, we have the awesome entertainment of New Jack to balance that out.  Oh, and Vampiro still rocks, which I am happy to see.  Teddy Hart was not anywhere near as bad as people say he is.  Justin Credible is still decent, too.

WSX is doing what WWE should be doing with the ECW product, and doing it well based on the first show.  Okay, the announcers are beyond obnoxious, but hey, at least the in-ring product is enjoyable.  Yeah, the ring announcer looked like he had taken several hits of speed before the show, and I would love to see New Jack smash him, but ah well.

Honestly, the product, for its length, was far better in terms of the in-ring product than most of WWE's recent nonsense, and the booking makes more sense than most of TNA's stuff as of late (thanks to Vince Russo), so I think WSX may just be watchable.  Not quite as good as TNA (even with the nonsensical booking), but definitely better than WWE so far.  This is actually what I had expected from the ECW brand.
TiLoBrownPosted on 01/31/07 at 15:36:58

I love how everyone keeps comparing it to the old ECW. I agree, it is like the old ECW.....worthless crap.
JakePosted on 01/31/07 at 16:11:03

On 01/31/07 at 09:24:25, Anubis wrote:Okay, Sean Waltman still sucks beyond anything imaginable, but thankfully, we have the awesome entertainment of New Jack to balance that out.
According to the Wikipedia page, New Jack, Justin Credible, Chris Hamrick, and Puma were one-time-only appearances.
TiLoBrownPosted on 01/31/07 at 16:54:37

Wait, someone said New Jack is awesome? WTF?
Modified CravatPosted on 01/31/07 at 16:54:47

"OH MY GOD! The referee has GOT to be dead!" - Commentator after referee took the guitar shot.


Classical shit.  ;D
Modified CravatPosted on 01/31/07 at 17:10:05

On 01/31/07 at 16:11:03, Jake wrote:
According to the Wikipedia page, New Jack, Justin Credible, Chris Hamrick, and Puma were one-time-only appearances.
According to WIKIPEDIA Kane has won the Nobel Peace Prize for stopping wars. But I hope that Jack/Credible are regulars because they can't catch a break anywhere else and its a shame.
JakePosted on 01/31/07 at 17:13:24

On 01/31/07 at 17:10:05, Modified Cravat wrote:

According to WIKIPEDIA Kane has won the Nobel Peace Prize for stopping wars. But I hope that Jack/Credible are regulars because they can't catch a break anywhere else and its a shame.
The Nobel Peace Prize could use more KANE.
VertigoPosted on 01/31/07 at 17:51:01

Anyone who enjoys this can NOT be a wrestling fan. How can any of this psychologoically help wrestling.. even from an entertainment perspective?

So now if I go to an independant show and the main event is a table match. The storyline has had an awesome build and this thing is the be-all, end-all of the fued...

But wait.. why does this even matter when I just saw a 10 Man Rumble with explosions, tables, ladders, thumbtacks, and everything else between 10 guys... none of which have any heat with each other AT ALL.

It's a disgrace and I was embarassed, both as a wrestler and a fan, to be watching something like that.

Things need to evolve, like wrestling. You can't just take a sport and dramatically change it like this. It has to evolve and in wrestling evolution, it takes a little bit of time.
TiLoBrownPosted on 01/31/07 at 18:18:06

They may not have heat on each other, but they all wanted the title match. Thats only thing I can't fault in the entire show...
wizardneedsfoodPosted on 01/31/07 at 21:22:12

On 01/31/07 at 17:51:01, Vertigo wrote:Anyone who enjoys this can NOT be a wrestling fan. How can any of this psychologoically help wrestling.. even from an entertainment perspective?
Elitist much? Calm down dude, WSX didn't kill your puppy. Some like it, some don't. What I like about it is that it isn't anything like WWE or TNA. It is something truly fresh on the national wrestling scene. It isn't my favorite style of wrestling, but it IS fun, and that's what is important in entertainment. And I love the fact that it is only 30 minutes. Much more of that tempo and my brain might melt.
VertigoPosted on 02/01/07 at 00:15:46

Call me oldschool, but I just can't stand it. Did anyone take note of how many moves Kaos took? How many FINISHING moves!? He shouldn't have even be able to walk. The first move her took was the Cradle DDT move. He should've been DONE for after that.

With the amount of commercials MTV runs, you barely got 11 minutes of wrestling.

The roster is amazing. It's like a TNM dream roster. Everything about it just disappoints me though.
wizardneedsfoodPosted on 02/01/07 at 00:23:15

That's fine. Dislike it all you want. But there isn't a need to start pointing the badfun finger at everyone who disagrees.

We all have different tastes.
Rick GarrardPosted on 02/01/07 at 01:02:43

to the person that said that WSX is like old ECW... did you even WATCH old ECW EVER?!?  Like before D-Von and BuhBuh Ray were even part of the Dudleys?  

What WSX is more like Big Japan wrestling... the most garbage wrestling company to ever have garbage wrestling matches.  Wasn't it Big Japan that once had an Oven Death Match or some such nonsensical match?  I just kept expecting Mad Man Pondo, Mike Samples, and Mr. Pogo to show up during WSX.
AnubisPosted on 02/01/07 at 01:05:23

Exactly. I would say that WWE fans aren't real wrestling fans since WWE so rarely puts on what anyone would call good wrestling matches, but I usually limit my bashing to Vince McMahon himself.

Old ECW was one of the best promotions ever; Paul Heyman was a genius booker, if bad with money. WSX is like a not-so-cool version of old ECW, which is still better than WWE by my standards. Yeah, the exploding props were a bit silly, but it was different. The workers still managed to have decent psychology (not great, just decent) in the ring between explosions, and the heat was there because they all wanted the belt. Even if you don't like the Rumble, how can you possibly say that Matt Sydal and Jack Evans were anything but absolutely fucking fantastic out there?

I dunno if WSX will continue putting on good matches like the first or okay matches like the Rumble, but I'm gonna give it a few weeks and find out. It's certainly better than "the new breed ECW" by far.

On 02/01/07 at 01:02:43, Rick Garrard wrote:to the person that said that WSX is like old ECW... did you even WATCH old ECW EVER?!?  Like before D-Von and BuhBuh Ray were even part of the Dudleys?
To me, old ECW starts with the Rob Van Dam/Sabu/Taz/Dudley Boys/Triple Threat era.  Before that is OLD old ECW, from before most people even knew or cares who the heck they were.  I can't well comment on that because I didn't even know ECW existed back then.

On 02/01/07 at 01:02:43, Rick Garrard wrote:What WSX is more like Big Japan wrestling... the most garbage wrestling company to ever have garbage wrestling matches.  Wasn't it Big Japan that once had an Oven Death Match or some such nonsensical match?  I just kept expecting Mad Man Pondo, Mike Samples, and Mr. Pogo to show up during WSX.
Imagine, hardcore wrestling that's more than trash cans and chairs.  A breath of fresh air if you ask me.  I like a good technical bout as much as the next guy, but I got Samoa Joe and Kurt Angle for that.  The matches are good in WSX, even if not technical masterpieces.  Better than anything in WWE currently, and while not as good as TNA's best in-ring stuff, it's still good enough to entertain me.
Rick GarrardPosted on 02/01/07 at 01:27:04

Sadly WSX comes off as wanting to be the Insane Clown Posse's Juggalo wrestling and Ian Rotten's IWA Mid-South combined with an announcer that make Tony Schiavone and David Crockett look like the smartest commentators of all time and camera work that is ADD addled moreso than normal for an MTV production.

Hardcore wrestling is not about weapons filled violent matches that so many have come to deem "hardcore" thanks to the WWE's irreverant usage of the term.  There is a difference between a garbage wrestling and hardcore wrestling pormotion.  A hardcore promotion caters to the fans with a variety of match types that may or may not include weapons, whereas a garbage wrestling promotion is mainly a weapons filled anything goes every match type of promotion.  CZW and Big Japan would be garbage wrestling.  ECW, APW, and MLW would be considered hardcore and WSX because it has only had one episode air, still has no true definition other than an entire company filled with cruiserweights.  Sadly Vampiro is probably their best star and he's getting up there in years (it's most noticeable in his AAA work in Mexico).
pszPosted on 02/01/07 at 01:38:39

"Extreme" and "Hardcore" *USED* to mean the Dictionary Definitions of "Extreme" and "Hardcore".

Main Entry: hard core
Function: noun
1 : a central or fundamental and usually enduring group or part: as a : a relatively small enduring core of society marked by apparent resistance to change or inability to escape a persistent wretched condition (as poverty or chronic unemployment) b : a militant or fiercely loyal faction


Main Entry: 1ex·treme
Pronunciation: ik-'strEm
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin extremus, superlative of exter, exterus being on the outside -- more at EXTERIOR
1 a : existing in a very high degree <extreme poverty> b : going to great or exaggerated lengths : RADICAL <went on an extreme diet> c : exceeding the ordinary, usual, or expected <extreme weather conditions>2 archaic : LAST
3 : situated at the farthest possible point from a center <the country's extreme north>
4 a : most advanced or thoroughgoing <the extreme political left> b : MAXIMUM
5 a : of, relating to, or being an outdoor activity or a form of a sport (as skiing) that involves an unusually high degree of physical risk <extreme mountain biking down steep slopes> b : involved in an extreme sport <an extreme snowboarder>

Plainly put, Extreme or Hardcore wrestling USED to mean that the performers went to their limits to amaze the fans. Sometimes it was high spots. Sometimes it was chain-wrestling. Sometimes it was weapons. Sometimes it was a mat-clinic. Usually it was various combinations of the above.

Extreme and Hardcore now simply means "Bleeding, flying, weapons, and lack of rules"


(Note: I haven't seen WSX yet, so I can't comment on the product. I was just pointing out what "oldschool" Extreme/Hardcore fans are referring to compared to the current terms ;->)
AnubisPosted on 02/01/07 at 01:50:49

On 02/01/07 at 01:27:04, Rick Garrard wrote:Sadly WSX comes off as wanting to be the Insane Clown Posse's Juggalo wrestling and Ian Rotten's IWA Mid-South combined with an announcer that make Tony Schiavone and David Crockett look like the smartest commentators of all time and camera work that is ADD addled moreso than normal for an MTV production.

Hardcore wrestling is not about weapons filled violent matches that so many have come to deem "hardcore" thanks to the WWE's irreverant usage of the term. There is a difference between a garbage wrestling and hardcore wrestling pormotion. A hardcore promotion caters to the fans with a variety of match types that may or may not include weapons, whereas a garbage wrestling promotion is mainly a weapons filled anything goes every match type of promotion. CZW and Big Japan would be garbage wrestling. ECW, APW, and MLW would be considered hardcore and WSX because it has only had one episode air, still has no true definition other than an entire company filled with cruiserweights. Sadly Vampiro is probably their best star and he's getting up there in years (it's most noticeable in his AAA work in Mexico).
I don't have a problem with Garbage wrestling when it's done right with at least a decent amount of psychology.  I know that seems like a paradox, but WSX pulled it off to a degree.

I take it you like Garbage wrestling about as much as I like Sports Entertainment?  Which would make sense since really old school Traditional is your favorite product, understandable.
TiLoBrownPosted on 02/01/07 at 03:14:02

On 02/01/07 at 01:05:23, Anubis wrote:The matches are good in WSX, even if not technical masterpieces
That's the problem, they're not matches. They were spotfests. Theres a difference.
HugeRockStar760Posted on 02/01/07 at 03:50:14

Considering WSX got a 1.0 rating against ECW on Tuesday, that speaks volumes about what people think about Vince's handling of the promotion.

Funny too that Vince wanted to put a stacked ECW show against WSX. I hardly would think depushing CM Punk and another Test/Lashley hoss-fest would classify as compelling television.
PulsarPosted on 02/01/07 at 05:07:20

OK, let me break it down:

Announcer is GQ Money (From XPW)
There are some good stars (this was my first time seeing Jack Evans and Matt Sydal, and they're not bad...a little spot-ish, but not bad.) It does get some wrestlers national spotlight like the 2 above, Teddy Hart, Kaos, as well as an outlet for some mistaken stars.

It does seem like the way too over-the-top crappy garbage wrestling though, and I can't see it holding too well. Looks more like a stunt show then a wrestling show. 10 years ago, this show would be #1, but not now. If they have normal matches, it could overall improve, but if not....I'd be amazed if it completes it's first season.
AnubisPosted on 02/01/07 at 05:53:36

That much may be true.  If they constantly have the exploding matches, it will get old real quick, as that's not something you can throw out there every day.  If the "norm", however, is like the match between Matt Sydal and Jack Evans (which was a great match for free TV), then WSX could succeed.

The Rumble, I liked it because it was a new take on an old concept.  I don't wanna see it every week, but for a major opening main event, it did its job well.  I liked Sydal/Evans better, but it was still good.

Jack Evans is definitely the best aerial worker I've ever seen in my life, and him and Sydal are great workers, better than most in the WWE by far.  Evans is right up there in coolness with AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels (one step below Samoa Joe and Rob Van Dam in my opinion).

Oh, and as a bonus, the women have real breasts and are hot.  Gotta love that.  That Lizzie Valentine or whatever her name was actually did her role well, too.  Looks hot as all fucking hell and pulled the classic valet stuff off without a hitch.
Rick GarrardPosted on 02/01/07 at 05:55:09

I take it you like Garbage wrestling about as much as I like Sports Entertainment?  Which would make sense since really old school Traditional is your favorite product, understandable.
Actually garbage wrestling has it's place and it's not going away.  When properly executed as the blow off to a feud or when a feud is built around said garbage type of matches, then it makes sense.  To have every match on every card have pyro at ring side and usage of light tubes, thumbtacks, tables and chairshots is pointless and makes said usage of such spots mean less in the long term.  Eventually a wrestler will no sell death and that will be the ultimate garbage spot (yeah, I know Terry Gordy already did it in Japan).

And when the marquee says wrestling, explain just how a staple gun, live pirhanas, and electrified barbed wire have much to do with a sport other than turning said sport into an episode of the Discovery Channel's Stunt Junkies.
AnubisPosted on 02/01/07 at 05:57:03

On 02/01/07 at 05:55:09, Rick Garrard wrote:Actually garbage wrestling has it's place and it's not going away. When properly executed as the blow off to a feud or when a feud is built around said garbage type of matches, then it makes sense. To have every match on every card have pyro at ring side and usage of light tubes, thumbtacks, tables and chairshots is pointless and makes said usage of such spots mean less in the long term. Eventually a wrestler will no sell death and that will be the ultimate garbage spot (yeah, I know Terry Gordy already did it in Japan).

And when the marquee says wrestling, explain just how a staple gun, live pirhanas, and electrified barbed wire have much to do with a sport other than turning said sport into an episode of the Discovery Channel's Stunt Junkies.
Because it's exciting to have on occasion, that's why.  The Rumble was essentially like a PPV main event, so I would call it a major enough match.

Now if every match ends up like that, then yeah, it's gonna suck, but right now I'm holding hope that the norm is stuff like Evans/Sydal.

P.S. If WSX is already matching TNA in the ratings, TNA is in deep shit.
Rick GarrardPosted on 02/01/07 at 06:07:27

that's what I've been saying about TNA all along.  Considering it has been getting about equal ratings to that WWE's AM Raw on at 1am on Saturday night/Sunday morning... and AM Raw is just the 1hour clip version of Monday's show from 5 days prior.

And yes it's exciting when done properly.  But when EVERY match ends up looking like New Jack and Mustafa have just had a match against Da Baldies, it's not so great.  And unfortunately from what I've heard about WSX, they play on doing more of the silly over the top garbage stuff than the actual wrestling which would be able to showcase the talents of the talent they have on the roster.  And yes they have quite a bit of decent talent on the roster, just don't stick them in the crap match of the week.
VertigoPosted on 02/01/07 at 06:28:38

Mr. Garrard is the only one I can agree with here.

I can't believe someone said there was a bit of psychology involved. Tell me exactly what story was told during the opening match. Who was heel and babyface? I mean which clearly stood out!? I know Sydal was supposed to be the heel... but he didn't do anything to get heel heat.

And no, "everyone wanting the title" in the main event doesn't classify as "heat". If everyone wanted it, Xpac, Vampiro, and that no name wouldn't have been the only ones trying to get it. Did Justin Credible even attempt to climb the ladder?

In no way is this close to the old ECW that brought me back to wrestling. I cared to learn about all the people involved in ECW. They were doing something different and original for the time. They took traditional wrestling and raised the bar a notch. That's not what WSX is doing at all. They're taking stunts and trying to incorporate wrestling, not vice versa.

I really do like you all and value your opinions and comments. I'm not flaming any of you, just the product.
Rick GarrardPosted on 02/01/07 at 06:43:51

and this is truly one flaming product... they had more bump induced explosions than a Cactus Jack-Terry Funk explosions match in Japan.  ;)
HugeRockStar760Posted on 02/01/07 at 07:24:48

Mr. Garrard? When did Rick turn heel like Mr. McMahon?
Rick GarrardPosted on 02/01/07 at 08:42:43

since there are no chants in hell.  ;)
AnubisPosted on 02/01/07 at 09:14:10

On 02/01/07 at 06:28:38, Vertigo wrote:I can't believe someone said there was a bit of psychology involved. Tell me exactly what story was told during the opening match. Who was heel and babyface? I mean which clearly stood out!? I know Sydal was supposed to be the heel... but he didn't do anything to get heel heat.
I have no idea how Matt Sydal was a heel.  How do you classify your faces and heels out of the gate?  Still, the fans seemed to know which one was the face and which one was the heel (probably plants or a sign or something, or maybe it was explained before the show; I hear some old promotions used to do that way way way back when).  As for the story told in the ring, I thought it was clear.  Matt Sydal was cocky and acting like hot shit, while Jack Evans actually was.  Meanwhile the girl kept on eyeing the competition, and Sydal was overconfident.  Evans showed himself to be more agile and more talented, and Sydal got his ass kicked.  Except for the aerial stuff, that match was pretty traditional.

Th Rumble, well, I chalk it up to being about the Championship.  You can't exactly "build up" to your debut show, after all.  Hence why I'm willing to give it a chance.  I enjoyed the first show (unlike the first ECW show from WWE), so I'll watch the second.  If I start to get the impression it'll be cheesy explosion special effects every week, I won't be watching for long, unless New Jack is the one causing the mayhem, in which case that's okay.

By the way, Rick Garrard, I have an unrelated question.  Recently on TNA, with Sting's title loss, it was mentioned that the old NWA rule has always been that the title changes hands on a DQ.  Is this true?  I'm playing as Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling in TEW2007's Death of the Territories Scenario (takes place in 1983), and I wanna know if Ric Flair's villainy should be mainly "cheat to win" or "get himself DQed when he gets outmatched".
HugeRockStar760Posted on 02/01/07 at 14:57:27

The rule was enforced only at certain times for storyline reasons. I grew up in the Mid-Atlantic and can't remember one Ric Flair match or any match for that matter that involved a title switching on a DQ. I'm sure it's in the NWA rulebook, but it is something that is rarely enforced.
rey619Posted on 02/01/07 at 15:15:09

Didn't Valentine try to cheat on Sydal's behalf? Pretty obvious who's the heel to me. And they had, like, a 5 minute match.. not much time to play the crowd when you have to hit all your high-flying spots in those 5 minutes.

Believe me, I've seen tons of Sydal and Evans matches (not only with each other), and this was not very good at all. Then again, they do tend to get a little more than 5 minutes in ROH and DragonGate
HugeRockStar760Posted on 02/01/07 at 15:43:26

Matt Sydal's character is a jock and Lizzy Valentine is the Prom Queen. Stereotypically, they will always be the heels by default.
VertigoPosted on 02/01/07 at 17:27:06

On 02/01/07 at 09:14:10, Anubis wrote:
I have no idea how Matt Sydal was a heel. How do you classify your faces and heels out of the gate? Still, the fans seemed to know which one was the face and which one was the heel (probably plants or a sign or something, or maybe it was explained before the show; I hear some old promotions used to do that way way way back when). As for the story told in the ring, I thought it was clear. Matt Sydal was cocky and acting like hot shit, while Jack Evans actually was. Meanwhile the girl kept on eyeing the competition, and Sydal was overconfident. Evans showed himself to be more agile and more talented, and Sydal got his ass kicked. Except for the aerial stuff, that match was pretty traditional.
There were in fact a hell of a lot of non-wrestling fans in the crowd. And I'm sure they cheered and booed whomever they wanted. You can't be so gullible, Anubis. Remember who we're dealing with... MTV. All those crowd shots that were thrown in there, and the crowd "ooh"s and "ahh"s were just thrown in there for the effect.

On an unrelated note, anyone going to the Hybrid Pro Wrestling show in Fremont, OH with Sabin and Shelley on the card? Sweet little fed you guys should check out. Just ran it's first card in December with Joe, Daniels, and Gowen on it. This next one is the 2nd. It's building some steam.
MatteusPosted on 02/01/07 at 19:19:36

On a positive note, it's good to see that SuperStarJimiC got a job booking WSX ::)

ECW needs more JimiC
meetzorakPosted on 02/01/07 at 21:10:07

On 02/01/07 at 03:14:02, TiLoBrown wrote:

That's the problem, they're not matches. They were spotfests. Theres a difference.
I enjoy the occasional spotfest, hell im a CZW and PWG fan.
AnubisPosted on 02/01/07 at 22:53:03

And there is nothing wrong with a "spotfest" if it's good.  Every single wrestling match, technically, is a spotfest.

When Ric Flair wrestles, you know at some point he's gonna get hit and just "drop" with that glazed look in his eyes.  Heel Ric Flair always goes to the top turnbuckle and gets tossed, while face Ric Flair usually his his move.  Ric Flair also, you know it always happens, gets tossed into the corner and somehow just flips right over the damn thing.

You seem to be lumping spotfests in with the work of useless spot monkeys.  Sonjay Dutt and Chris Sabin are useless spot monkeys.  Guys like Jack Evans are simply aerial workers.  The only difference between an aerial spot (like the 630) and a technical spot (like Benoit's rolling Germans) is that one is aerial and the other is not.  Evans is great, Matt Sydal is great.  Even New Jack has his place, he's damn entertaining, a talented "spot monkey" (though we all know he can do more, but doesn't because his antics are what makes him New Jack).
HugeRockStar760Posted on 02/01/07 at 23:14:26

Comparing Ric Flair matches to spotfests... ??? I've truly seen it all now.
VertigoPosted on 02/01/07 at 23:28:33

I was about to question where exactly Anubis got a wrestling degree. I really don't understand anything you just said... because I honestly don't think any of it made much sense. I'm sorry...

So when is someone going to take the reigns of WSX and turn it into an enjoyable TNM circuit run in the correct way... or at least better?

I'd think about it if I wasn't running the sweetest TNM-RG rules fed...

And then of course I would think twice about it and decide not to do it.
AnubisPosted on 02/01/07 at 23:28:58

But it's true.  Ric Flair hits a ton of spots.  Jack Evans hits a ton of spots.  The only difference is that Flair is better at it.  Doesn't mean Evans sucks, doesn't mean he's ever gonna be as good as Flair.  Just means it's a different wrestling style.  Evans is an aerial worker, Flair is a traditional mat worker.

Ric Flair isn't better because he's a traditional mat worker, he's better because he's just simply better, because he's Ric motherfucking Flair, one of the best wrestlers of all history.

I like Goldberg.  I like Rob Van Dam.  I like Samoa Joe.  I like Mariko Yoshida.  I like Ric Flair.  Five workers with entirely different styles, but all good nonetheless as far as I'm concerned.  Hell, I even find Kevin Nash and Warrior to be entertaining, as long as they stay away from the ring.
AllPowerfulGARTHPosted on 02/01/07 at 23:57:42

On 01/31/07 at 17:13:24, Jake wrote:
The Nobel Peace Prize could use more KANE.
That's what I've been saying for years.
Rick GarrardPosted on 02/02/07 at 02:20:13

By the way, Rick Garrard, I have an unrelated question. Recently on TNA, with Sting's title loss, it was mentioned that the old NWA rule has always been that the title changes hands on a DQ. Is this true? I'm playing as Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling in TEW2007's Death of the Territories Scenario (takes place in 1983), and I wanna know if Ric Flair's villainy should be mainly "cheat to win" or "get himself DQed when he gets outmatched".
It just depended upon what the bookers for the territory where Flair was defending the title wanted. Say Flair beat the top guy in the territory last time in by DQ or countout at about the 45 to 50 minute mark, the next time in, the match would be a title can change on a DQ match. Also World Class in Texas adopted this rule for all of their titles after they split from the NWA. It really makes the heels get creative in their cheating to keep a title and is quite a bit of fun to watch, especially when a heel keeps cheating during a match like this and never gets caught, but a face will do something for the first time and the ref sees it and the building riots.  Classic stuff.
rey619Posted on 02/02/07 at 08:21:51

On 02/01/07 at 22:53:03, Anubis wrote:Sonjay Dutt and Chris Sabin are useless spot monkeys. Guys like Jack Evans are simply aerial workers.
You just didn't call Chris Sabin a useless spot monkey now, did you? And THEN called Jack Evans an aerial worker? Oh man.. that's all so... backwards.
AnubisPosted on 02/02/07 at 09:23:56

Chris Sabin sucks.  Seriously.  I can't stand him or Sonjay Dutt.

Jack Evans, he's exciting.  Sabin is just . . . boring.

You know what the X Division needs?  Kevin Nash versus Warrior in Ultimate X!
Modified CravatPosted on 02/02/07 at 17:12:00

On 02/02/07 at 09:23:56, Anubis wrote:Chris Sabin sucks. Seriously. I can't stand him or Sonjay Dutt.

Jack Evans, he's exciting. Sabin is just . . . boring.

You know what the X Division needs? Kevin Nash versus Warrior in Ultimate X!
-Sabin and Dutt are really good. I don't blame you for not liking them though if you only watch TNA. But if you watch some INDY shows... they are really really good. I don't know why... but Sabin's Independent work (especially in BOLA 2006) is SO MUCH better than his TNA work. And Dutt had an amazing match against Bryan Danielson for the RoH World Title a while back (some roh/czw supershow). I have the feeling I'm gonna get sick of Evans in a bit... I've seen him so many times in matches w/in the last month... flips and superflips are just gettin' kinda boring.

-And uh... Warrior "Ultimate Warrior" Warrior would absolutly demolish Kevin Nash in a wrestling match. ::)

(I just read rey619's comment on the backwardness of the statement... and LOL. Perfectly put.)
AnubisPosted on 02/07/07 at 05:34:37

Well, the second show was pretty good.  The Human Tornado had some good moves, and Team Dragon Gate was OMFG awesome.  Good matches overall, and they almost made it through the whole show without Power Rangers Explosions.

The main event was decent, Vampiro is looking as good as ever, and 6 Pack is . . . tolerable.  The exploding coffin was a bit silly, but hey, it meant victory for Vampiro, so I can forgive that.
Modified CravatPosted on 02/07/07 at 06:34:03

This episode was on last Thursday for some odd reason. But yeah. It was good because it was PWG until the main event. And ANY match that has Sean Waltman OR Vampiro in it I will turn off. So I did.  8)
Rick GarrardPosted on 02/07/07 at 07:30:40

the suits at MTV in their infinite wisdom usually air the "premiere" of the episode on Tuesdays for WSX, even though the same episode is "sneak previewed" on either Thursday and/or Friday the week before for WSX.  Yes, it makes no sense.  But then again neither does showing actual programming on what is technically "Music Television".
JakePosted on 02/07/07 at 16:25:00

Last night's episode was horrible. And I'll tell you why:

Shitty editing.

I imagine some of these matches went about 10 minutes, but were cut down to 2-3 minutes, and BADLY cut. Two guys in their respective corners, then BAM! middle of the ring throwing punches.
wizardneedsfoodPosted on 02/08/07 at 02:40:58

While I do enjoy the WSX show as something different...watch the online Xtra show to see some really cool stuff, including full matches. And Matt Classic is the greatest gimmick of all time.
ZedjaPosted on 02/08/07 at 10:12:29

I just saw the entire first show online (including the dark match) and it was generally. Lousy commentators. Bad lighting. Hopefully the second show is better.

EDIT: Ok, not much better..

And TLC match for Episode 3. Table, Ladders and Cervesas(?)

EDIT2: Matt Classic = Colt Cabana? Now I'm more impressed by that guy.
wizardneedsfoodPosted on 02/08/07 at 21:17:46

Yeah. Colt Cabana is absolutely boss.
AnubisPosted on 02/08/07 at 22:44:54

On 02/07/07 at 16:25:00, Jake wrote:Last night's episode was horrible. And I'll tell you why:

Shitty editing.

I imagine some of these matches went about 10 minutes, but were cut down to 2-3 minutes, and BADLY cut. Two guys in their respective corners, then BAM! middle of the ring throwing punches.
Are we watching the same show?  All the matches I saw ran about 5-6 minutes.  And while the exploding coffin was kinda cheesy, it wasn't what I'd call lousy.  The ending made sense and was properly booked; just because they added a Power Rangers Explosion doesn't make a good ending lousy.
ZedjaPosted on 02/09/07 at 08:23:47

After looking around the OWW website it seems most of the matches were filmed in two tapings back in November and that Rumble Match were taped a year ago.
JeepGuyPosted on 02/09/07 at 18:15:06

How can you not love Mat Classic?

Does WSX remind anyone of XPW?
Rick GarrardPosted on 02/19/07 at 02:21:40

Go to Netflix and look for the wrestling insiders DVD with Vince Russo and Ed Ferrera.  On the DVD, most of the guys that are on WSX were working.  The Human Tornado and announcer Kris Kloss are prominently featured on the DVD.  And the DVD show seems to be taped from a PWG event.  One thing I have noticed about WSX is that Jesse Hernandez has a hand in it.  And he has more or less been the guy that has had the main non-WWE school on the west coast for years.  He was also a referee for the women's LPWA a few years ago.
JustinPosted on 02/19/07 at 02:28:17

Dave Meltzer is reporting that episode 4 of MTV's Wrestling Society X was pulled due to a fireball thrown by Ricky Banderas at Vampiro, as an angle to build a title match later in the season. WSX producers and MTV will meet next week regarding the future direction of the project. As things stand, WSX wil return to its normal time slot on Tuesday, February 27th at 10:30PM ET. As previously noted, "Scarred" will air on 2/20 in the WSX time slot. In addition, MTV has pulled all replays of WSX, but WSX replays are still available on other MTV networks.

here is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpbGzljDCQo
Rick GarrardPosted on 02/19/07 at 02:38:20

LOL  sure it wasn't pulled due to shitty ratings and this is Viacom's way of covering their ass?

Especially considering the entire season of shows was taped last November, there's really no excuse for the MTV suits to have NOT already known what the show content was, unless the dumbass production company is holding all the episodes until a week before airdate before giving them to MTV to air.  And it's not like this is the first time a fireball has been used in sports entertainment.
Modified CravatPosted on 02/19/07 at 21:26:10

Well... MTV sucks. And so does WSX. :). What that has to do with anything?... I don't know. I just had to restate it.
JeepGuyPosted on 02/19/07 at 23:04:41

If the ratings are so bad, why don't they just drop the program entirely? Could the ratings not be as bad as some here on the boards are making them out to be? We are talking MTV afterall.

Though, this does say something about how devoted the MTV execs are to the project ... what with the shows all shot over a year ago and they are just now realizing this fireball thing might be bad? If it has to do with children/teens doing it at home ... didn't MTV show Jack Ass and Bam Magera which both had stupid, sometimes dangerous stunts?

Does anyone here actually like the show? I don't mind raising my hand and saying that I have enjoyed what I've seen so far, having watched the matches online. Sure, the matches tend to be spot monkey fests but to be fair, there is only 30 minutes to each show, leaving only so much time to work with.
Rick GarrardPosted on 02/20/07 at 00:41:24

The show would be a LOT better if they actually had someone other than an MTV editor splicing the videos of the matches together to make the matches look worse than even the most horribly spliced clip match tape from eBay.  I think if they were to use a two or three camera setup without the quick MTV edits and with showing the entire match (not just the spots) the product would vastly improve.  I don't think it's totally a waste, as they did employ most of the PWG talent.  Sadly, this show will be lucky to see season two unless another network (perhaps Ion, formerly Pax then I, which has just recently signed on to air part of the Bodog fighting championships?) can pick it up.
JeepGuyPosted on 02/20/07 at 05:00:20

Oh, I agree. With a little more time for the matches, some better camera work and production of putting it all together (ie. splicing), I think there'd be a much better product.

I've been watching the matches online, are they different from what's on TV? They all run about 6.5 to 7 minutes long online.

I'm guessing they're not targeting diehard wrestling fans with this show but rather the occassional fan as well as the X-Gamer type who might watch for the arial/spotfests.

Me ... I like seeing the XPW and PWG guys get some TV time and I don't have to invest alot of time into it if I don't want to in order to keep up with things.

I have to agree with you, Rick, I don't think this show will get a second season. I'll be surprised if they show all the episodes of this first season.
HugeRockStar760Posted on 02/20/07 at 05:53:03

How dare they censor Ricky Banderas! Especially when he throws such a wicked fireball like that! It certainly was of a better quality than Hogan v. Warrior circa Halloween Havoc 1998.

Seriously, though, watch Ricky Banderas on WSX. From what I watched from his stint in the lucha libre promotion AAA, he's quite impressive. It wouldn't surprise me if Vince signs him eventually. He's like Chuck Palumbo, but with more charisma and wrestling ability.
Modified CravatPosted on 02/20/07 at 06:29:15

On 02/20/07 at 05:53:03, HugeRockStar760 wrote:It wouldn't surprise me if Vince signs him eventually. He's like Chuck Palumbo, but with more charisma and wrestling ability.
They day Vince hires someone w/ wrestling ability and keeps them... will be the day I stop breathing.
HugeRockStar760Posted on 02/20/07 at 06:39:41

You have a point there. They have to work the same style everyone else uses.
JeepGuyPosted on 02/20/07 at 06:55:06

On 02/20/07 at 06:29:15, Modified Cravat wrote:

The day Vince hires someone w/ wrestling ability and keeps them... will be the day I stop breathing.
I'm sure some of the WSX guys are being watched by Vince and company and a few of them might find themselves with contracts but it is also very likely they'll never be used.
Rick GarrardPosted on 02/21/07 at 01:18:44

Also, it should be noted that both Kris Kloss and Kevin Kleinrock were involved with XPW (the west coast version) as well.  (source: wikipedia of Kevin Kleinrock)  So it should be no surprise that we see a LOT of the old XPW type of stuff on this show.
JakePosted on 02/21/07 at 17:32:31

Well, apparantely MTV will air episode 4 next week, but the spot in question will be heavily edited.

As for liking WSX, up until last night, I hadn't watched EshitW in quite some time.