Join The Community
TNM Discord
@tnm7sim
tnm7sim
TNM 3:16 Forums
FORUM HOME > Wrestling > US Independents
ROH to unify World and Pure titles
| Anubis | Posted on 08/08/06 at 05:56:25 Got this from Gerweck: I wanted to post this before tomorrow's newswire comes out since ROH will never be the same after this Saturday's event in Liverpool. The main event of ROH's debut in the UK on Saturday in Liverpool will see the World and Pure Title unified. There is a press conference in the next ROH Video Recap that will name the rules. Here is a preview: -The bout will feature ROH World Champion Bryan Danielson vs. ROH Pure Champion Nigel McGuinness. -The match will be contested under Pure Title rules so the rope breaks will be in effect and the Pure Title can change hands on DQ and countout, but the World Title can also change hands on a DQ or Countout. -There will be no time limit. -In the event of a double DQ or double countout, the match will be restarted. ROH will never be the same after Liverpool. The first title change of 2006 is GUARANTEED to take place on this event. Liverpool could see the largest crowd in ROH history. There are still tickets available. Check the main page of ROHwrestling.com for details. Be part of history!!! Now I'm no expert on ROH, but isn't this a really bad idea? |
| suicidalbynature | Posted on 08/08/06 at 08:40:44 the Pure title was getting stale anyway plus it adds a great deal of intrigue to the events in england. if this gimmick weren't in place then it would be a no brainer for american dragon but now having nigel win is a distinct possibility. one belief is that nigel will win the match and then drop the title at the next show but ROH doesn't hot shot titles around like that so it could be very interesting. either way ROH will probably debut some new whacky puro-inspired title. i wouldn't be surprised if they made an openweight title or some sort of Under-2? title or even bring back the ultra swank number one contenders trophy. one singles title and one tag title just doesn't work out. |
| rey619 | Posted on 08/08/06 at 11:13:39 Read the news bulletin again... Gabe specifically does not mention a double pin... Then again, he would get seriously crapped on if he went that way. RoH fans doesn't tolerate bullshit the way WWE fans does. I've read the thread over at the forum on the RoH Site, and some think that both titles will stay, creating a double champion. Now, I'm not too sure, as it says unification. I think the Pure matches are a fun diversion, but I can't really see too many contenders for it. |
| suicidalbynature | Posted on 08/08/06 at 23:48:12 i'd rather them keep both belts but have them unified under the banner of the World Title ie the AJPW Triple Crown. i really don't know what they are going to do here and i think that is a huge positive as unpredictable booking is good in my eyes. |
| wizardneedsfood | Posted on 08/09/06 at 00:23:51 My prediction... Nigel wins it sneaky wise. Then jobs to Kenta whenever Kenta's title match. Someone needs to get the belt off Dragon before he turns into a Joe-esque monster where no one is going to believe it when he does get beaten. Plus Nigel is one of the only three guys that's been booked to look decent against Dragon during his title reign. The others being Kenta and Delirious. |
| Anubis | Posted on 08/09/06 at 00:58:34 Well, I heard Roderick Strong looked pretty good against Dragon in their series. |
| suicidalbynature | Posted on 08/09/06 at 01:36:26 i wouldn't mind seeign KENTA win the belt and defend it in both NOAH and ROH but i doubt he will since his travel schedule would be absolutely hectic if he were to win the championship. |
| wizardneedsfood | Posted on 08/09/06 at 02:17:49On 08/09/06 at 00:58:34, Anubis wrote:Well, I heard Roderick Strong looked pretty good against Dragon in their series.He looked strong in each individual match, but when you lose to the same guy three times... |
| americamamushi | Posted on 08/09/06 at 23:10:54 im curious to see what CotD's opinion on the matter is |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 08/10/06 at 19:13:23 Sorry I haven't chimed in before now. I've been in jolly old England for the past week (although I will unfortunately not be able to attend either ROH show because I'm moving on to Ireland on Saturday - Ireland was originally scheduled for today, but some terrorists went and mucked up my flight plans... but that's another story). Anyway, the main benefit to this title unification is that it gives the Liverpool show enough of a "big show" feel that the market will hopefully support a tour out this way every year. The fact that Nigel McGuinness is contending to unite the World and Pure titles in his home country will make the crowd absolutely rabid - and amazing memorable shows grows the business like no secondary title ever will. I personally like the Pure Title and Pure Rules matches; however the matches tend to be a bit on the slow side, and do to the comparatively arcane rules they are more than a little unaccessable to newcomers. If your World title is mainly held by longterm champions, and your secondary title uses a ruleset which only your hardcore fanbase really appreciates, you have problems. By rolling the Pure Title into the World Title in a high profile international defense, you can significantly boost the World Title's prestige while opening up space on the roster for a new belt based around a more accessable concept. I don't think ROH is going to create a new belt immediately, mind you. I also don't think they're going to bring back the Number One Contender's Trophy. But when they do bring in a new secondary title, I don't know what form it will take. Since ROH's roster is so young, I don't think an Under 20-something title is too likely. Since the majority of the roster is under 220 lbs, I doubt it's going to be a cruiserweight title. ROH has no television, so a TV Title is right out. And ROH's fans would crucify them for an X-Division title. That doesn't leave many options for a differentiated division. Going out on a limb, I'm going to say that they incorporate either a Young Lions title of some sort (based on ROH experience rather than actual age - only wrestlers with the company 2 years or less could win it), or (and it pains me to say this) some type of Hardcore belt to capitalize on Punk appearing in McECW and getting ROH chants. These are, of course, just guesses, and I WISH I could be in Liverpool instead of on a boat to Ireland on Saturday. Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 08/13/06 at 13:12:12 And... "American Dragon" Bryan Danielson has officially unified the World and Pure Titles after defeating Nigel McGuinness by referee stoppage. I'll post full results of the show, plus last weekend's, when I return to the states. For the moment, there's another person who needs the hotel computer, so I'm off for now. Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |
| Rick Garrard | Posted on 08/13/06 at 17:28:18 okay now for the $50 question... hey it is an indy after all... Which rules will the "unified" ROH Title be defended under? The Pure or the World Title rules? |
| rey619 | Posted on 08/13/06 at 18:33:00 My guess would be World Title rules. As has been mentioned, the Pure Rules are quite complicated for the casual fan. |
| Rick Garrard | Posted on 08/13/06 at 18:39:17 the argumentative point would be that RoH has "casual" fans? They are an indy, and as with most they have a rabid fanbase. Plus it has been mentioned numerous times that Gabe isn't concerned with RoH going "mainstream" so the "casual" fan shouldn't be a concern. Am I really missing something with this one? Or is it just RoH's cop-out reason of eliminating one title so they can create another? It's almost like when WCW/NWA used to just randomly bring back the 6 man tag team titles every couple years. |
| Perverted_Icon | Posted on 08/14/06 at 08:08:18On 08/13/06 at 18:39:17, Rick Garrard wrote:the argumentative point would be that RoH has "casual" fans? They are an indy, and as with most they have a rabid fanbase. Plus it has been mentioned numerous times that Gabe isn't concerned with RoH going "mainstream" so the "casual" fan shouldn't be a concern. Am I really missing something with this one? Or is it just RoH's cop-out reason of eliminating one title so they can create another?Unless Dusty moves to ROH and has to give his friends title belts to carry around, I think we're safe from that. |
| rey619 | Posted on 08/14/06 at 09:24:18 Well, it's still a lot of clunky rules, and it does favor pure, technical wrestlers who rely a lot on submission moves. Imo, the main belt should be accessible to everyone. Still, I'm sad to see the Pure belt go away, as I really enjoyed how a "lesser" wrestler such as Nigel could go over Samoa Joe, Daniels and even Danielson in one match, simply because he was more familiar with the rules, and wrestled cleverly. His matches with Joe really showcased Joe as a big, violent brute, but not necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer. |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 08/15/06 at 22:46:44On 08/13/06 at 18:39:17, Rick Garrard wrote:the argumentative point would be that RoH has "casual" fans? They are an indy, and as with most they have a rabid fanbase. Plus it has been mentioned numerous times that Gabe isn't concerned with RoH going "mainstream" so the "casual" fan shouldn't be a concern. Am I really missing something with this one? Or is it just RoH's cop-out reason of eliminating one title so they can create another?Yes, the core of ROH's fanbase is longtime indy fans. But I'd wager that not a single show goes by where at least a few people aren't attending a ROH show for the first time. ROH's average attendence seems to be slowly but steadily growing. New fans are showing up all the time, and in order to retain them ROH has to put on top-to-bottom amazing shows. If these new fans are confused by the Pure Title's odd rules and can't get into the match, that's that much more ROH has to do with the rest of the show to keep their attention. In short, there's a difference between making your product more accessable to new fans and "going mainstream." Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |
| Rick Garrard | Posted on 08/16/06 at 03:39:26 But a GOOD promoter would find a way to explain the rules simply and concisely each time a match is under those rules, much like how WWE bastardized the 24/7 Hardcore rules. Then again who am I to doubt Gabe Sapolsky's booking skill? I'm not El Dandy, that's for sure. |
| Critic of the Dawn | Posted on 08/17/06 at 04:32:14On 08/16/06 at 03:39:26, Rick Garrard wrote:But a GOOD promoter would find a way to explain the rules simply and concisely each time a match is under those rules, much like how WWE bastardized the 24/7 Hardcore rules. Then again who am I to doubt Gabe Sapolsky's booking skill? I'm not El Dandy, that's for sure.Oh, I understand what you're saying. And I agree that a division stressing pure technical wrestling is a good fit in Ring of Honor. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to make the existing Pure rules simple enough so that the fans will grasp them instantly. If you throw away the special Rope Break rules that take 5 minutes to explain, you basically have a normal match with count-outs enforced at 20 (Normal ROH matches have no count outs). I suppose if ROH wanted to keep a similar concept with simpler rules, they could create a title defended only in Submission Matches. Eric "Critic of the Dawn" |